Starmer's vision quest

[icowden]

A quick Google suggests not. Can you link to the relevant part of the document?

Apologies. I had not read the bit at the top of the page on full fact:

To date, we have looked at 86 key pledges, from Labour’s 2024 election manifesto and from further announcements made since.

Digital ID was an announcement made after the manifesto. Apparently political parties are allowed to do things that weren't in the manifesto. Instead they are in Labour's "Plan for Change".
https://fullfact.org/government-tracker/frequently-asked-questions/#how-did-you-choose-what-to-track

 

[icowden]

iT should be easy to show us where it is now you have the document. Unless of course you were simply not telling the truth and make up things.

See my post to shortfall. It is from the post manifesto "Plan for Change".

 

[briantrumpet]

Missed these from ex-Telegraph Peter Oborne first time round (or I'd forgotten them). Superb analysis of the problem of McSweeney, even in retrospect.

https://www.bylinesupplement.com/p/the-end-of-morgan-mcsweeney-peter

 

[spen666]

See my post to shortfall. It is from the post manifesto "Plan for Change".

So your whole post was a based on a fallacy

The reason Starmer didn't tell people was digital ID was in the manifesto is ......because it wasn't in the manifesto, and to claim as you did was a lie that even a politician would not stoop to

 

[icowden]

So your whole post was a based on a fallacy

The reason Starmer didn't tell people was digital ID was in the manifesto is ......because it wasn't in the manifesto, and to claim as you did was a lie that even a politician would not stoop to

Oh do fark off Spen.

My post was based on an error of misreading of the tracker which I pointed out myself. Digital ID remains a policy that Labour introduced post election and failed to implement.

I was good enough to provide references to the tracker.

Some form of National ID has been Labour policy for about 20 years. It's hardly a surprise. It was a Blair initiative after 9/11.

 

[briantrumpet]

I think this is Starmer missing any chance for a change in direction at all, and ensuring Labour's defeat to Reform, unless the underlings aren't also in Team Reform-Lite like their old boss. Seems unlikely.

 

[spen666]

Oh do fark off Spen.

My post was based on an error of misreading of the tracker which I pointed out myself. Digital ID remains a policy that Labour introduced post election and failed to implement.

I was good enough to provide references to the tracker.

Some form of National ID has been Labour policy for about 20 years. It's hardly a surprise. It was a Blair initiative after 9/11.

Your post was devoid of facts. You chose to make things up.

Don't be surprised that false claims are called out.

A basic check of the manifesto shows it makes no mention of Digital ID

The reason Starmer never told people it was in the manifesto was because it wasn't

 

[briantrumpet]

No doubt the press went to Blue Labour MPs to get these quotes to keep stirring the pot, but I do have to wonder what they are doing in Labour in the first place, with phrases like "uber woke, net-zero, rejoinerism".

At the moment there's not one sane political party that's not been infiltrated by loons.

 

[secretsqirrel]

No doubt the press went to Blue Labour MPs to get these quotes to keep stirring the pot, but I do have to wonder what they are doing in Labour in the first place, with phrases like "uber woke, net-zero, rejoinerism".

At the moment there's not one sane political party that's not been infiltrated by loons.

View attachment 12982

Broad church, I think that’s what they call it.

What an odd reaction.

 

[briantrumpet]

What's so frustrating about the McSweeney line is that it patently hasn't been working, and doing more of it and doing it harder is just making it worse. It's beginning to resemble the Brexit cop-out of "it's too early to tell", and it's getting perilously close to the "too late to do anything about it" point of realisation. If he were the genius he is in his own mind, they wouldn't be in such a hole. And even more frustrating that Starmer can't see it.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

What's so frustrating about the McSweeney line is that it patently hasn't been working, and doing more of it and doing it harder is just making it worse. It's beginning to resemble the Brexit cop-out of "it's too early to tell", and it's getting perilously close to the "too late to do anything about it" point of realisation. If he were the genius he is in his own mind, they wouldn't be in such a hole. And even more frustrating that Starmer can't see it.

View attachment 12983

But I still do not understand why they don't see it? Is it simply that they are so entrenched in the "McSweeney won us an election" fallacy that they are prepared to believe that any path he took was sure to be a success, regardless of all available evidence?

 

[Xipe Totec]

Morgan McSweeney made it abundantly clear who he was and what he was trying to do when he described racist, brick-lobbing, hotel-burning MAGAndy-style Reform supporters as the "Hero Voters" Labour must target, and claimed their votes were "worth two" of anyone else's.

I am utterly gobsmacked that he's gone. I was convinced Starmer would perform seppuku himself, in order to protect the McSweeney/Mandelson project.

 

[briantrumpet]

But I still do not understand why they don't see it? Is it simply that they are so entrenched in the "McSweeney won us an election" fallacy that they are prepared to believe that any path he took was sure to be a success, regardless of all available evidence?

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

Morgan McSweeney made it abundantly clear who he was and what he was trying to do when he described racist, brick-lobbing, hotel-burning MAGAndy-style Reform supporters as the "Hero Voters" Labour must target, and claimed their votes were "worth two" of anyone else's.

I think it was sheer hubris with McSweeney. It was all a game to him. I don't think he in anyway cared about these voters, he wanted their vote so he could brag that he had won the seemingly impossible votes. It was a pure ego boost to show others was a brilliant strategist he was (in his own mind of course).

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

What's so frustrating about the McSweeney line is that it patently hasn't been working, and doing more of it and doing it harder is just making it worse. It's beginning to resemble the Brexit cop-out of "it's too early to tell", and it's getting perilously close to the "too late to do anything about it" point of realisation. If he were the genius he is in his own mind, they wouldn't be in such a hole. And even more frustrating that Starmer can't see it.

View attachment 12983

Indeed, and with the Mandelson appointment, they were trying to fight mire with mire. Which, as we all have seen, tends to lead to things getting enmired.