Starmer's vision quest

[briantrumpet]

Aspect to me is that Ministers (including current incumbents) frequently tell us "Advisers advise, Ministers decide". So who decided to appoint Mandleson?

You're hankering for an era that hadn't existed for long before even Carrington. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be nice if there were more Carringtons, but you're going to remain permanently disappointed if you think that politics is an honourable business, given that the whipping system is at least partially based on personal blackmail threats towards their own MPs.

 

[monkers]

So your whole post was a based on a fallacy

The reason Starmer didn't tell people was digital ID was in the manifesto is ......because it wasn't in the manifesto, and to claim as you did was a lie that even a politician would not stoop to

Oh do stop, you tiresome little man. Try posting something useful to a thread instead of this constant ongoing nitpicking over the words of others. You did this with me over the Filton prisoners, and then when caught out, denied you'd even heard of them, despite them being the ONLY prisoners held at that time with the specific range of offences that you listed.

An insignificant error is not a fallacy. Neither is any assertion that every ambition is always stated in a manifesto. Any person with any political nous knows this is not true, and any person knows that ambitions can be later added to policy as some kind of imperative, for example being required due to changing circumstances.

 

[spen666]

No, I made an error when picking Digital ID as an example. Substitute the freeze on NIC thresholds.

I don't have as much free time on my hands as you do. I just picked the first failure from the full fact government tracker.

My point stands - which is about Starmer's tendency for knee-jerk responses as soon as he is challenged.

You made up a claim about something.
It was not in the manifesto and your falsehood was easily checked.


Its pathetic to claim your failure to check your facts as some kind of defence.
You've been caught out making things up
Given how you appear unable to accept it was your fault are you sure you are not Kier Starmer. You both seem to share an inability to accept you got it wrong and the buck stops with you for your actions

Amongst other things:
-blaming lack of time, - I not you didn't lack the time to make up the false narrative. If you truly lacked time, you wouldn't have time to make up false claims and post them on here
-blaming a fact checker - why not look at the manifesto rather than quoting some third party analysis. It would have been as quick to look at the manifesto as to find a 3rd party opinion on the manifesto
- trying to deflect your falsehood by waffling on about NIC thresholds, which have nothing to do with Digital ID being or not in the manifesto

Do you now want to blame McSweeney for your making false claims?

 

[spen666]

Oh do stop, you tiresome little man. Try posting something useful to a thread instead of this constant ongoing nitpicking over the words of others. You did this with me over the Filton prisoners, and then when caught out, denied you'd even heard of them, despite them being the ONLY prisoners held at that time with the specific range of offences that you listed.

An insignificant error is not a fallacy. Neither is any assertion that every ambition is always stated in a manifesto. Any person with any political nous knows this is not true, and any person knows that ambitions can be later added to policy as some kind of imperative, for example being required due to changing circumstances.

Oh who rattled your cage?

A falsehood is a falsehood.

Mind you as someone who doesn't let the truth get in your way, why am I not surprised that you are defending false claims


An insignificant error?
it was a complete falsehood about something that was not in the manifesto and was easily checked and shown to be a lie. A deliberately made up claim to support a political argument is not an insignificant error - its a falsehood

 

[TailWindHome]

Don't worry, when Rayner and Milliband are in charge they'll make the Starmer interregnum look like a brief period of boring competence and fiscal probity by comparison. Buckle in!

You did the tweet!

 

[briantrumpet]

Small beer, in the grand scheme of things, and it'll be interesting whether it's a case of rats leaving a sinking ship, or a McSweeney ally who realises (or thinks) that the times are a-changing.

I might have to find a hat to eat, but I think Starmer's going to carry on at least until the local elections, when, after terrible results, all the noises from left and right will start up all over again. I think that one is going to be a harder on to ride out, particularly if he doesn't seize this moment to change course with the iceberg ahead, rather than shuffling the deck chairs.

 

[monkers]

Oh who rattled your cage?

A falsehood is a falsehood.

Mind you as someone who doesn't let the truth get in your way, why am I not surprised that you are defending false claims


An insignificant error?
it was a complete falsehood about something that was not in the manifesto and was easily checked and shown to be a lie. A deliberately made up claim to support a political argument is not an insignificant error - its a falsehood

Actually look back Mr Tiresome - you'll find I was on the money. It turned out as I said, and despite your outrage, the 6 Filton prisoners walked free on the grounds I suggested they might - lawful excuse.

I might claim now that all the guff you said was ''falsehood'' and ''fallacy''. It wasn't, of course, you are just deaf to possibility.

While I might not always agree with @icowden, he is not a deliberate spreader of misinformation.

 

[First Aspect]

Actually look back Mr Tiresome - you'll find I was on the money. It turned out as I said, and despite your outrage, the 6 Filton prisoners walked free on the grounds I suggest they might - lawful excuse.

I might claim now that all the guff you said was ''falsehood'' and ''fallacy''. It wasn't, of course, you are just deaf to possibility.

Oh please just get a room and have some rough and tumbles, you two.

 

[Psamathe]

Meanwhile, under the radar given other issues

Starmer accused of hypocrisy over sharp cuts to World Food Programme
Keir Starmer has been accused of hypocrisy after cutting funding to the UN World Food Programme by a third while pledging to tackle “suffering and starvation”.

 

[spen666]

Actually look back Mr Tiresome - you'll find I was on the money. It turned out as I said, and despite your outrage, the 6 Filton prisoners walked free on the grounds I suggested they might - lawful excuse.

I might claim now that all the guff you said was ''falsehood'' and ''fallacy''. It wasn't, of course, you are just deaf to possibility.

While I might not always agree with @icowden, he is not a deliberate spreader of misinformation.

Ohh look another lie
I have never mentioned anything about the "6 Filton Prisoners" as you call them.


But hey, please don't stop facts getting in the way

And hey, when someone makes up claims about what is or is not in the last Labour Manifesto, you seek to defend that falsehood.

 

[TailWindHome]

 

[TailWindHome]

Perversely the only thing keeping Starmer in place is the inevitable bad results in the byelection and locals

 

[First Aspect]

View attachment 13006

Either he's been disastrously bad at messaging, or decided he is already sick and tired of herding cats.

 

[monkers]

Oh please just get a room and have some rough and tumbles, you two

Ohh look another lie
I have never mentioned anything about the "6 Filton Prisoners" as you call them.


But hey, please don't stop facts getting in the way

And hey, when someone makes up claims about what is or is not in the last Labour Manifesto, you seek to defend that falsehood.

I have never mentioned anything about the "6 Filton Prisoners" as you call them.

You mentioned them, but not by the name the press uses (not just 'as I call them'). You mentioned them by virtue of being PA protestors, listing the specific charges they faced, and being outraged by them being described as 'peaceful protesters'. You'd made up your mind they were guilty of violence and were going to jail. You objected to 'lawful excuse' being grounds for release.

However, I posted not because I care about this one instance, but because of the pattern of attacks against posters who do at least post in good faith.

 

[CXRAndy]

Oh please just get a room and have some rough and tumbles, you two.

Boys will be boys