Starmer's vision quest

[monkers]

Anyway ... back to the thread.

It's right McSweeney should go, and I'm certainly offering no defence of him or anybody at no.10.

Just to say though, the remarks about statements he made have some proper basis. He was right to say call out the thugs that attacked hotels were ''heroes''. He wasn't expressing this as his own view but the supporting thugs - he was noting that this is how the likes of the MAGAndy's of this world were painting the scene - ''it was only a bin on fire'' etc - we read it all on these threads first hand. Neither is he completely incorrect to note that these votes are worth two of anyone else's (though it's half a story). When you are in close rivalry with another party, this become arithmetically correct - you lose one vote to your closest rival and the gap has widened by two. The swing is twice the vote. When you attract a person who is typically a non-voter or first time voter - the arithmetical value is one.

 

[CXRAndy]

press chief quits starmers bunch

 

[briantrumpet]

I'm finding the "Starmer must go!" opinions quite interesting, in that none of them seem to propose a viable alternative. This is one of many, and I've yet to see a cogent argument beyond the "but he's been shit at politics with McSweeney and Glasman" charge (which is fair).

https://bsky.app/profile/georgemonbiot.bsky.social/post/3megd4krlok2o

 

[Rusty Nails]

I'm finding the "Starmer must go!" opinions quite interesting, in that none of them seem to propose a viable alternative. This is one of many, and I've yet to see a cogent argument beyond the "but he's been shit at politics with McSweeney and Glasman" charge (which is fair).

View attachment 13008

https://bsky.app/profile/georgemonbiot.bsky.social/post/3megd4krlok2o

The "anyone but..." crowd always get disappointed in the outcome, as they will if Reform have any electoral success.

 

[monkers]

I'm finding the "Starmer must go!" opinions quite interesting, in that none of them seem to propose a viable alternative. This is one of many, and I've yet to see a cogent argument beyond the "but he's been shit at politics with McSweeney and Glasman" charge (which is fair).

View attachment 13008

https://bsky.app/profile/georgemonbiot.bsky.social/post/3megd4krlok2o

The "anyone but..." crowd always get disappointed in the outcome, as they will if Reform have any electoral success.

Yes, and to be fair to George Monbiot there is a conditional ''if'' in his statement about the future of Labour rather than the wider point of future of the nation. The duality of identity politics and outrage politics is becoming more than the system can bear it seems.

 

[briantrumpet]

This is a good piece from July 2025 on the myth of McSweeney's 'brilliance'. It's no wonder he's not widely admired within the party.

https://subscribe.bylinetimes.com/edition/75/the-myth-of-morgan-mcsweeney/

"This obsession with fighting the left has long been a key attribute of McSweeney.

As Pogrund and Maguire have previously documented, the motivation behind his key role in ousting Jeremy Corbyn as Labour Leader continued long after the left of the party was marginalised. And though the focus was initially on ousting the far-left of the party, even those in the more moderate wing have since been targeted.

In the immediate aftermath of the General Election, McSweeney’s allies launched a campaign to oust Sue Gray from Downing Street, while also attempting to oust Ed Miliband, before ultimately succeeding in ousting his ally Louise Haigh.

In recent weeks, briefings about other Labour women seen as being on the ‘soft-left’ of the party have continued, with journalists close to McSweeney reporting that Culture, Media, and Sport Secretary Lisa Nandy and Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson will be “for the chop” in the upcoming reshuffle."

 

[icowden]

You made up a claim about something.
blah blah

You missed my first comment and have failed to fark off.

 

[Shortfall]

You did the tweet!

View attachment 13002

I'm not carrying any water for the Tories. I confess to indulging in a bit of schadenfreude having warned about how bad Labour would be in government but I'm in a state of despair about the state of our politicians whichever rosette they're wearing. Come the general election it will be a case of voting for the least worst, possibly voting for my current MP who is actually pretty good at local stuff (I know this is a cop out) or I might not even vote at all. All I'm saying is, much as I'm enjoying the complete collapse of the Starmer government, all of the alternatives for his job look even worse.

 

[briantrumpet]

I'm not carrying any water for the Tories. I confess to indulging in a bit of schadenfreude having warned about how bad Labour would be in government but I'm in a state of despair about the state of our politicians whichever rosette they're wearing. Come the general election it will be a case of voting for the least worst, possibly voting for my current MP who is actually pretty good at local stuff (I know this is a cop out) or I might not even vote at all. All I'm saying is, much as I'm enjoying the complete collapse of the Starmer government, all of the alternatives for his job look even worse.

My brand of politics is definitely 'least worst' too, but I don't think the Starmer govt is yet collapsing, despite the definite wobble and the wet dreams of the RW press and Corbynistas. And I wouldn't enjoy it, for the reason that all the alternatives currently look even worse.

 

[Psamathe]

Perversely the only thing keeping Starmer in place is the inevitable bad results in the byelection and locals

Maybe (guessing) a significant group of "change leadership" MPs want to delay the change until Ms Rayner has had the outcome of the HMRC investigation. From Ms Rayner's supporters perspective were Starmer to depart today (or soon) Ms Rayner could not viably stand (apparently her ongoing HMRC investigation is seen as a complete block on her candidature).

I'm finding the "Starmer must go!" opinions quite interesting, in that none of them seem to propose a viable alternative. This is one of many, and I've yet to see a cogent argument beyond the "but he's been shit at politics with McSweeney and Glasman" charge (which is fair).

View attachment 13008

https://bsky.app/profile/georgemonbiot.bsky.social/post/3megd4krlok2o

I would agree. I do think Starmer is making a complete mess but can't think of any of the prospects that I'd welcome and would inspire me to move back to Labour. And I can think of some who would probably be worse (eg Streeting).

 

[icowden]

My brand of politics is definitely 'least worst' too, but I don't think the Starmer govt is yet collapsing, despite the definite wobble and the wet dreams of the RW press and Corbynistas. And I wouldn't enjoy it, for the reason that all the alternatives currently look even worse.

Actually I'd be willing to try out either the Greens or Lib Dems.

 

[TailWindHome]

I'm not carrying any water for the Tories. I confess to indulging in a bit of schadenfreude having warned about how bad Labour would be in government but I'm in a state of despair about the state of our politicians whichever rosette they're wearing. Come the general election it will be a case of voting for the least worst, possibly voting for my current MP who is actually pretty good at local stuff (I know this is a cop out) or I might not even vote at all. All I'm saying is, much as I'm enjoying the complete collapse of the Starmer government, all of the alternatives for his job look even worse.

Seems bad for Badenoch that Tory voters are embarassed to admit it.

 

[TailWindHome]

Labour's unpopularity seems completely disproportionate to their performance as a government

Almost to the point of hysteria

 

[briantrumpet]

Seems bad for Badenoch that Tory voters are embarassed to admit it.

That's a really frustrating part of the choice we face: the Tories still just aren't credible. Reform is always going to be a 'vote for unicorns' populist party, and the Tories *could* look to their past and reflect on why they were electorally so successful... but it seems they have decided to just be a bad populist party of the Right, with no sense of history or ability to analyse where it went wrong.

 

[briantrumpet]

Labour's unpopularity seems completely disproportionate to their performance as a government

Almost to the point of hysteria

My summary would be (so far) dull but competent (matches Starmer's persona), with added anti-immigrant crap and political missteps (McSweeney & Glasman). The RW press never stop hounding any Labour administrations or politicians. To be fair, this time, their target isn't a woman with ginger hair, which makes a change.