Starmer's vision quest

[AuroraSaab]

They're naive enough to think that allowing individuals to buy small amounts of ghb for personal use won't result in it being used to spike the drinks of women and men to facilitate rape, so I think some kinds of political naivity are more reckless than benign and best avoided at anything above local council level.

 

[icowden]

His plan is to leave Nato and nicely ask Mr Putin to give up his nukes. It's not cosying up exactly but it is bonkers.

No it isn't. Keep up. This is the current Green manifesto

Nuclear weapons and NATO

Most of the world’s countries do not possess weapons of mass destruction and are safer as a result.

Elected Greens will:

• Push for the UK to sign the UN Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW) and following this to immediately begin the process of dismantling our nuclear weapons, cancelling the Trident programme and removing all foreign nuclear weapons from UK soil.
• Work with international partners to enlarge membership of the TPNW and ensure that all states meet their commitments under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

The Green Party recognises that NATO has an important role in ensuring the ability of its member states to respond to threats to their security. We would work within NATO to achieve:

• A greater focus on global peacebuilding.
• A commitment to a ‘No First Use’ of nuclear weapons.

 

[Stevo 666]

My general perception is that the populist left is well-meaning but hopelessly naïve;

One out of two isn't bad.

 

[icowden]

They're naive enough to think that allowing individuals to buy small amounts of ghb for personal use won't result in it being used to spike the drinks of women and men to facilitate rape, so I think some kinds of political naivity are more reckless than benign and best avoided at anything above local council level.

Wrong again.

Green Party leader Zack Polanski says his party wants to legalise, regulate and control drugs in a 'public health approach' which would instead point people towards addiction, housing, employment and health support.
During a visit to Gorton he hit out at the Prime Minister for discussing the party's policy on the issue in 'dishonest terms', calling it 'vile and disgusting'.

I can't find any statement about use of GHB for date rape. What has been proposed is that we shouldn't be sending people to prison for the possession of small amounts of drugs. We should be sending the dealers to prison.

 

[TailWindHome]

Buy Ed Miliband

 

[First Aspect]

Wrong again.

Green Party leader Zack Polanski says his party wants to legalise, regulate and control drugs in a 'public health approach' which would instead point people towards addiction, housing, employment and health support.
During a visit to Gorton he hit out at the Prime Minister for discussing the party's policy on the issue in 'dishonest terms', calling it 'vile and disgusting'.

I can't find any statement about use of GHB for date rape. What has been proposed is that we shouldn't be sending people to prison for the possession of small amounts of drugs. We should be sending the dealers to prison.

While that might be their actual policy, this morning on Today, Polanski was asked about it and his answer did include the word legalising. At the very least it was a poor summary and I'm personally not convinced he really understands what the policy is.

 

[Cirrus]

His plan is to leave Nato and nicely ask Mr Putin to give up his nukes. It's not cosying up exactly but it is bonkers.

Giving up nukes has worked out really well for Ukraine

 

[Pblakeney]

No it isn't. Keep up. This is the current Green manifesto

Nuclear weapons and NATO

Most of the world’s countries do not possess weapons of mass destruction and are safer as a result.

Elected Greens will:

• Push for the UK to sign the UN Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW) and following this to immediately begin the process of dismantling our nuclear weapons, cancelling the Trident programme and removing all foreign nuclear weapons from UK soil.
• Work with international partners to enlarge membership of the TPNW and ensure that all states meet their commitments under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

The Green Party recognises that NATO has an important role in ensuring the ability of its member states to respond to threats to their security. We would work within NATO to achieve:

• A greater focus on global peacebuilding.
• A commitment to a ‘No First Use’ of nuclear weapons.

Bonkers.
At best, exceedingly naive.

 

[spen666]

....
Most of the world’s countries do not possess weapons of mass destruction and are safer as a result.

...

A claim from the Greens they cannot back up?

 

[Blazing Saddles]

No it isn't. Keep up. This is the current Green manifesto

Nuclear weapons and NATO

Most of the world’s countries do not possess weapons of mass destruction and are safer as a result.

Elected Greens will:

• Push for the UK to sign the UN Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW) and following this to immediately begin the process of dismantling our nuclear weapons, cancelling the Trident programme and removing all foreign nuclear weapons from UK soil.
• Work with international partners to enlarge membership of the TPNW and ensure that all states meet their commitments under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

The Green Party recognises that NATO has an important role in ensuring the ability of its member states to respond to threats to their security. We would work within NATO to achieve:

• A greater focus on global peacebuilding.
• A commitment to a ‘No First Use’ of nuclear weapons.

Should guarantee a 2 horse race between Trumptonia and Putinesca to see which invades us first.

The Monster Raving Green Looney party.

 

[Pross]

I think it is fair to ask whether, based on their tactics in that particular election, the Greens would have run an entirley contractictory campaign in Golders Green.

I don't know the answer, but I do strongly suspect the same tactics wouldn't have been used. This is the problem with populism. Up to the point of governing, they can be everything to everyone, then they need to make choices and instantly become less popular.

I would have thought it is a pretty natural position for Greens to be critical of the humanitarian situation created in Gaza by the Israeli government so I'm not convinced it is populism. They might not make it a campaigning issue in an area with a large Jewish population but I doubt they'd actively reverse their position (which appears to have been what Labour have done since accusations of anti-Semitism under Corbyn).

 

[briantrumpet]

A longish but detailed read (from September) on why Labour is simply wrong to be chasing Reform voters, borne out by last night's result:

https://politicscentre.nuffield.ox....electoral-challenges-are-being-misunderstood/

"You can see why Labour might be struggling to respond to this new challenge. But responding wrongly, based on a shorthand, has massive electoral risks, because you could be alienating the very people who have voted for you and who would have been much more likely to do so in another election, including in those very places. It is far harder for Reform to win Labour voters than it is for them to win more votes from the Conservatives, and this remains true regardless of the ‘Leave-y-ness’ of the part of the country. The continued split on the right – not the left - continues to give Reform UK the chance to say they are ‘parking their tanks on Labour’s lawns’. Labour needs to separate understanding these places from understanding their voters within them. If Labour goes after long-lost Labour voters, from many elections ago, their job will arguably be even harder."

 

[monkers]

The Definitive Introductory Text Drugs Policy of the Green Party of England & Wales-verbatim ...

DR100 Aim:

To end the prohibition of drugs and create a system of legal regulation to minimise the harms associated with drug use, production and supply as part of an inclusive, supportive, socially just society.

DR101 Principles. The Green Party:

1. Is evidence-based in all aspects of drug policy, taking into account the views of people who use alcohol and other drugs
2. Takes a public health approach to drug dependence to tackle the wider causes of problematic drug use, such as adverse life events and poverty
3. Recognises that adults should be free to make informed decisions about their own drug consumption and that such freedom must be balanced against the government’s responsibility to protect individuals and society from harm
4. Promotes international and environmental responsibility in relationships with producers and supply chain workers
5. Opposes profiteering from the supply of drugs
6. Is honest in communication to the public about drugs

DR102 The Green Party recognises that in the majority of cases the limited use of drugs for recreational purposes is not harmful and has the potential to enhance human relationships and human creativity. Most harmful drug use is underpinned by poverty, isolation, mental illness, physical illness and psychological trauma. The minimisation of these societal ills will be the focus of the Green Party.

DR103 The Green Party accepts that people always have used and always will use drugs, and therefore there will always be people who produce and supply drugs.

DR104 The Green Party defines “drugs” as synthetic or plant-based substances that have a substantial psychoactive and /or physiological effect, direct or indirect, on the human body.


There is much more as their policies are drug specific.

Kindly note that while reproducing it, I am not offering any opinion of it.

 

[First Aspect]

I would have thought it is a pretty natural position for Greens to be critical of the humanitarian situation created in Gaza by the Israeli government so I'm not convinced it is populism. They might not make it a campaigning issue in an area with a large Jewish population but I doubt they'd actively reverse their position (which appears to have been what Labour have done since accusations of anti-Semitism under Corbyn).

The populism part of this was the leafleting, unless you can explain why Zionism, Gaza or Islamophobia are relevant to trying to get a trade deal with the most populous nation on earth.

If there is any actual policy difference from Labour it is down at the level of how stroppy they would be with Netenyahu. I actually think the UK has been quite openly critical already, so I am genuinely struggling.

 

[icowden]

A claim from the Greens they cannot back up?

Not really. There are 195 recognised countries. Only 9 have nuclear weapons:

• USA
• Russia
• UK
• France
• China
• India
• Pakistan
• Israel
• North Korea

The vast majority of the Nukes are owned by Russia and the USA with over 5000 each. China in 3rd with 600ish.