Swearing and/or offensive language

[mudsticks]

You forgot the virtue signalling. Life is a struggle trying to be both PC and VS, but somebody has to do it.

Course no one wants to look uncool by appearing over-anxious around getting the language just right.

But still, thats about several hundred miles better than looking like an utter tosspot who doesn't give a shoot about anyone elses feelings 👍🏼

 

[glasgowcyclist]

By 'part of everyday language' what you really mean is 'has become normalised'.

I was thinking about this last night after reading your comment; what is it that makes a word a swear word, how does it come about and who first decides that it is taboo? Are they created specifically to be swear words or, as I would think, are they ordinary words that have subsequently been assigned a classification of rude or offensive through pejorative usage?

There was a time when ‘muck’ and ‘dirt’ were interchangeable with ‘shìt’ as an everyday noun for human or animal faeces, so why was the latter eventually singled out as a curse when it could have been any one of them?

When a word is first created, presumably it has no inherent rudeness or vulgarity, it’s just an ordinary word. Perhaps over time it assumes certain connotations and takes on a taboo nature. But (and this brings me to your ‘normalised’ comment) at some point it was normal and acceptable before becoming unacceptable at some point. So to say that, for example, ‘fück’ has today become normalised is merely acknowledging that it has returned to its original category, before it had been graded as unacceptable.

Do my thoughts make any sense or am I gibbering?

 

[Xipe Totec]

I was thinking about this last night after reading your comment; what is it that makes a word a swear word, how does it come about and who first decides that it is taboo? Are they created specifically to be swear words or, as I would think, are they ordinary words that have subsequently been assigned a classification of rude or offensive through pejorative usage?

There was a time when ‘muck’ and ‘dirt’ were interchangeable with ‘shìt’ as an everyday noun for human or animal faeces, so why was the latter eventually singled out as a curse when it could have been any one of them?

When a word is first created, presumably it has no inherent rudeness or vulgarity, it’s just an ordinary word. Perhaps over time it assumes certain connotations and takes on a taboo nature. But (and this brings me to your ‘normalised’ comment) at some point it was normal and acceptable before becoming unacceptable at some point. So to say that, for example, ‘fück’ has today become normalised is merely acknowledging that it has returned to its original category, before it had been graded as unacceptable.

Do my thoughts make any sense or am I gibbering?

Absolutely! Basically wot I said upthread.

Quite right, seemingly a lot of our mucky words have Old English, Latin & Germanic derivations, while racist & homophobic language tends to have more recent etymology.

It is interesting how selective this use of language can be - while you'd struggle to find daytime mainstream media using terms like shithead, fückwit or w@nker, insults such as 'scumbag' get tossed around quite happily. 'Scumbag' is apparently early 20th century slang for a used condom.

Funny fücking world, innit?

 

[mudsticks]

I was thinking about this last night after reading your comment; what is it that makes a word a swear word, how does it come about and who first decides that it is taboo? Are they created specifically to be swear words or, as I would think, are they ordinary words that have subsequently been assigned a classification of rude or offensive through pejorative usage?

There was a time when ‘muck’ and ‘dirt’ were interchangeable with ‘shìt’ as an everyday noun for human or animal faeces, so why was the latter eventually singled out as a curse when it could have been any one of them?

When a word is first created, presumably it has no inherent rudeness or vulgarity, it’s just an ordinary word. Perhaps over time it assumes certain connotations and takes on a taboo nature. But (and this brings me to your ‘normalised’ comment) at some point it was normal and acceptable before becoming unacceptable at some point. So to say that, for example, ‘fück’ has today become normalised is merely acknowledging that it has returned to its original category, before it had been graded as unacceptable.

Do my thoughts make any sense or am I gibbering?

Nope it's a whole bunch of gibbering Scots hogwash . 😇

Thing is, it seems to be a human need to have some taboo words that have power in extremis

If we get rid of the current crop, well just have to invent new ones.

I'd personally prefer if marginalised groups, and those with less power didn't get abuse by proxy..

Eg in the case of c*nt.

I do understand that it has other meanings elsewhere

 

[Ian H]

T'other evening we were at a gig. Small venue, audience of about 50, Jean Toussaint playing with a local band. I had got my wine & balanced it on the bench in front whilst arranging my seat. Wine glass fell & smashed. I uttered a loud involuntary F*CK & was immediately embarrassed. Started trying to clear up & the lovely venue folk came up, shooed me out of the way, swept & wiped up, and gave me another glass of wine gratis. I apologized as the band came in.
Not my finest hour.

 

[Xipe Totec]

Belgium, man - Belgium!

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I'd personally prefer if marginalised groups, and those with less power didn't get abuse by proxy..

Eg in the case of c*nt.

Me too. However, my thoughts are more about the origins of the various words and their original intent. I’m not saying they should be acceptable as abuse towards the groups you mention.

 

[mudsticks]

Me too. However, my thoughts are more about the origins of the various words and their original intent. I’m not saying they should be acceptable as abuse towards the groups you mention.

Words meaning morph over time, as we see repeatedly.

But if men want to be offensive towards other men whom they feel are behaving badly, or poorly, or whatever, they can, invoke their own intimate body parts (or habits) as slurs.

Not womens.

Same as if they wish to infer weakness in another man.

In some camps it seems that the most terrible insult that can fall upon a man is that he be likened to a female.

That's an insult to women, by proxy.

Plus its just pathetic, and inaccurate dickish behaviour, which makes the insulter look really stupid, and misogynistic..

Anyone is free to stop doing that, if they wish 👍🏼

 

[fozy tornip]

T'other evening we were at a gig. Small venue, audience of about 50, Jean Toussaint playing with a local band. I had got my wine & balanced it on the bench in front whilst arranging my seat. Wine glass fell & smashed. I uttered a loud involuntary F*CK & was immediately embarrassed. Started trying to clear up & the lovely venue folk came up, shooed me out of the way, swept & wiped up, and gave me another glass of wine gratis. I apologized as the band came in.
Not my finest hour.

Likely story.

'Appen it went down a little more like this;


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3reLyBB6ms

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Words meaning morph over time, as we see repeatedly.

But if men want to be offensive towards other men whom they feel are behaving badly, or poorly, or whatever, they can, invoke their own intimate body parts (or habits) as slurs.

Not womens.

Same as if they wish to infer weakness in another man.

In some camps it seems that the most terrible insult that can fall upon a man is that he be likened to a female.

That's an insult to women, by proxy.

Plus its just pathetic, and inaccurate dickish behaviour, which makes the insulter look really stupid, and misogynistic..

Anyone is free to stop doing that, if they wish 👍🏼

I get all that.

I’m trying to explore the etymological journey of swear words, not justify or excuse their use against any particular person or group.

For example; why was a 16thC monk comfortable writing “fückin abbot” in the margin of a religious book on morals?
It can’t have been regarded as so shocking or offensive then or it would surely have been erased or obliterated and not left for everyone to read for hundreds of years.

Then there’s the reportedly prolific use of swearing in the trenches during WWI. It’s written that such was the frequency of the word ‘fück’ that it lost all sense as an intensifier. Soldiers being told by their sergeant to “grab your fücking rifles” would regard it as a routine instruction. However, if the sergeant said, “grab your rifles”, then the absence of ‘fücking’ indicated the command was indeed urgent and indicated an immediate danger.

It’s these curiosities of language creation, development and usage I’m interested in.

 

[Ian H]

Likely story.

'Appen it went down a little more like this;


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3reLyBB6ms

You got me bang to rights.

Actually, the bloke next to me said he'd done similar earlier with a pint of beer. The beer glass didn't break, but the carpet in the arts centre must be pretty rancid by now.

 

[mudsticks]

I get all that.

I’m trying to explore the etymological journey of swear words, not justify or excuse their use against any particular person or group.

For example; why was a 16thC monk comfortable writing “fückin abbot” in the margin of a religious book on morals?
It can’t have been regarded as so shocking or offensive then or it would surely have been erased or obliterated and not left for everyone to read for hundreds of years.

Then there’s the reportedly prolific use of swearing in the trenches during WWI. It’s written that such was the frequency of the word ‘fück’ that it lost all sense as an intensifier. Soldiers being told by their sergeant to “grab your fücking rifles” would regard it as a routine instruction. However, if the sergeant said, “grab your rifles”, then the absence of ‘fücking’ indicated the command was indeed urgent and indicated an immediate danger.

It’s these curiosities of language creation, development and usage I’m interested in.

Oh yes the evolution of language is a fascinating thing right enough..

Once everyone is routinely using a word that was previously thought of as terrible, then a replacement has to be found to act as an expletive amplifier....

I wonder what will replace the C word once everyone's auntie is chucking it about willy nilly..
🙄

 

[Poacher]

Oh yes the evolution of language is a fascinating thing right enough..

Once everyone is routinely using a word that was previously thought of as terrible, then a replacement has to be found to act as an expletive amplifier....

I wonder what will replace the C word once everyone's auntie is chucking it about willy nilly..
🙄

Queynte?

 

[mudsticks]

Queynte?

Ooooh - get you with your fancy forrin wurds...

Trays sofistikated

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Queynte?

When I was about 7(!), my brother gave me Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales. Little did I know then of literary puns and double meanings.