briantrumpet
Timewaster
Not good. I suspect a statement of intent from Putin.
War with Russia
- Thread starter Milzy
- Start date
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briantrumpet
Timewaster
An interesting riposte to Owen Jones' claim that the West 'created' Vladimir Putin:
https://skywriter.blue/@ruthdeyermond.bsky.social/3mwdujgs34s2r
"By blaming the West for Russia's inability to emerge as the great power it is destined to be, the Kremlin shifts the blame for the Russian government's own failures while also creating an enemy that legitimates it and rationalises ever more control over Russian society. "It's all the West's fault" has been the Russian political elite's indispensable get out of jail free card for 30 years. It allows them to acknowledge that things have gone wrong while taking zero responsibility. If you tell only part of the story of what happened to the Russian economy in the 1990s, you are helping Putin continue to justify what he does to Russians, to Ukrainians, and to the rest of Europe."
https://skywriter.blue/@ruthdeyermond.bsky.social/3mwdujgs34s2r
"By blaming the West for Russia's inability to emerge as the great power it is destined to be, the Kremlin shifts the blame for the Russian government's own failures while also creating an enemy that legitimates it and rationalises ever more control over Russian society. "It's all the West's fault" has been the Russian political elite's indispensable get out of jail free card for 30 years. It allows them to acknowledge that things have gone wrong while taking zero responsibility. If you tell only part of the story of what happened to the Russian economy in the 1990s, you are helping Putin continue to justify what he does to Russians, to Ukrainians, and to the rest of Europe."
Psamathe
Squire
NATO is a defensive organisation, its treaties only work in a defensive situation.
I don't see it as NATO expanding. More that independent democratic countries chose to join.
Ian H
Pharaoh
Were allowed to, even encouraged to join. Which reduced Russia's potential sphere of influence.
Psamathe
Squire
Maybe better than Putin's method trying to get independent democratic countries to join Russia.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
An interesting phrase.
Ian H
Pharaoh
Covers a multitude of sins. But I'm not making value judgements. Russia is skilled at covert influence.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
And sometimes forcefully overt. I believe Sweden, Finland, Latvia and Estonia are more concerned about this aspect.
Pinno718
Squire
I don't buy that argument at all.
Under Yeltsin, Russia was transitioning from a Communist country to a more free market economy and it was chaotic. That was the junction they had arrived at and there presented the opportunity for a very different relationship with the West.
Putin had other ideas - the coercive take over of parts of Georgia, the massacre of 33,000 Chechyn's, the annexation of many former soviet territories, the dictatorial nature of his relationship with many of those countries etc.
Putin has long fought a hybrid war to push his expansionism - through propaganda and military force. One could argue that the 'sphere of influence' is far greater than the old USSR: Syria, Iran and other middle eastern countries, many countries in Africa and an unholy alliance with Xi Xing Ping, India and NK.
The propaganda is endemic in the current French political climate with 2 right wing parties topping the polls and both figures are pro Putin. Putin has his tentacles in US politics. He has tentacles in British politicks. Boris Johnson and others attended parties thrown by the Russians - it was common. Putin has spent his 3 decades in power compiling Kompromat on the back of the parties riddled with prostitution.
The notion of NATO encroachment in menacing fashion is Putin propaganda. Putin has never (bar the odd recent drone and a couple of commercial airline strikes), attacked a NATO country by conventional force directly.
NATO has had every reason to add member states.
It's a bit like saying that you caused the bully to be what he is because you didn't allow the bully to be what he wanted to be. It's tautologistic.
Putin is amongst the more intelligent dictators but the playbook is the same - divert blame, divert attention, claim everything you do is for the benefit of the people and in his case, blame your expansionist actions on forces out with your control, ramp up the threat of those external forces and this justifies your actions. Volume 2 of the playbook is surround yourself with the forces and the finances to carry out your desires and in the process, line the pockets of the immediate thereby guaranteeing loyalty, ensuring control of communication which supports all aspects of the desire for more power and more income. This system of governance is an egotistical and self serving loop. which cannot be blamed on NATO.
Sorry, long post.
Under Yeltsin, Russia was transitioning from a Communist country to a more free market economy and it was chaotic. That was the junction they had arrived at and there presented the opportunity for a very different relationship with the West.
Putin had other ideas - the coercive take over of parts of Georgia, the massacre of 33,000 Chechyn's, the annexation of many former soviet territories, the dictatorial nature of his relationship with many of those countries etc.
Putin has long fought a hybrid war to push his expansionism - through propaganda and military force. One could argue that the 'sphere of influence' is far greater than the old USSR: Syria, Iran and other middle eastern countries, many countries in Africa and an unholy alliance with Xi Xing Ping, India and NK.
The propaganda is endemic in the current French political climate with 2 right wing parties topping the polls and both figures are pro Putin. Putin has his tentacles in US politics. He has tentacles in British politicks. Boris Johnson and others attended parties thrown by the Russians - it was common. Putin has spent his 3 decades in power compiling Kompromat on the back of the parties riddled with prostitution.
The notion of NATO encroachment in menacing fashion is Putin propaganda. Putin has never (bar the odd recent drone and a couple of commercial airline strikes), attacked a NATO country by conventional force directly.
NATO has had every reason to add member states.
It's a bit like saying that you caused the bully to be what he is because you didn't allow the bully to be what he wanted to be. It's tautologistic.
Putin is amongst the more intelligent dictators but the playbook is the same - divert blame, divert attention, claim everything you do is for the benefit of the people and in his case, blame your expansionist actions on forces out with your control, ramp up the threat of those external forces and this justifies your actions. Volume 2 of the playbook is surround yourself with the forces and the finances to carry out your desires and in the process, line the pockets of the immediate thereby guaranteeing loyalty, ensuring control of communication which supports all aspects of the desire for more power and more income. This system of governance is an egotistical and self serving loop. which cannot be blamed on NATO.
Sorry, long post.
