War with Russia

[Psamathe]

5. The establishment thought that a Ukraine take over would be a touch harder than Crimea but nothing that they couldn't overcome in a short period of time.

Really highlights how flawed our "leaders" are these days. Sound similar to Netanyahu's thoughts when he set about trying to destroy Iran (and Trūmp's from getting blindly convinced listening only to Netanyahu and ignoring his own expert advisers ...).

 

[Pblakeney]

Two non-NATO if you count Georgia.

I forgot about that one.

 

[Ian H]

You could ask those countries that joined their reasons for doing so.
You could also ask why a non-NATO country has been invaded. Twice.

I suggest you direct your comments at the National Security Archive - it's their article.

 

[Pinno718]

I suggest you direct your comments at the National Security Archive - it's their article.

You plucked it out as if you are in agreement and that NATO is partly to blame for the current situation.
What was your reason for quoting?

 

[Ian H]

You plucked it out as if you are in agreement and that NATO is partly to blame for the current situation.
What was your reason for quoting?

Do you think the National Security Archive is "in agreement"? Have you actually read the entire article?

 

[Pblakeney]

I suggest you direct your comments at the National Security Archive - it's their article.

Reads as a lot of leaders making decisions without consulting those most directly involved.
What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Ian H]

Reads as a lot of leaders making decisions without consulting those most directly involved.
What could possibly go wrong?

With hindsight? Possibly quite a lot.

 

[Pblakeney]

With hindsight? Possibly quite a lot.

Don't even need hindsight as it is happening today, and will likely continue into the future.
Trump, Xi, and Putin deciding what is best for Ukraine. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Pinno718]

Do you think the National Security Archive is "in agreement"? Have you actually read the entire article?

But you still haven't answered the question: What do you think?

 

[Pinno718]

 

[Ian H]

But you still haven't answered the question: What do you think?

Why are you attacking the messenger? I'm sure you can read the article and make your own mind up (I suspect you already have). How does what I think change the message?

 

[secretsqirrel]

Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner
The documents reinforce former CIA Director Robert Gates’s criticism of “pressing ahead with expansion of NATO eastward [in the 1990s], when Gorbachev and others were led to believe that wouldn’t happen.”[1] The key phrase, buttressed by the documents, is “led to believe.”
Full article here: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-...on-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

Sadly the same gave Ukraine assurances that they would protect them if they gave up any aspirations of owning nuclear weapons. That hasn’t been an overwhelming success so far.

 

[Pblakeney]

Why are you attacking the messenger? I'm sure you can read the article and make your own mind up (I suspect you already have). How does what I think change the message?

I think the question might be, who sent the messenger?

 

[Ian H]

I think the question might be, who sent the messenger?

The answer might be to read the article.

 

[Pblakeney]

The answer might be to read the article.

I did. As I referred to upthread it is about people deciding the fate of other countries without their input.
Always a mistake.