monkers
Legendary Member
Yes they are. Also trans men are men and non-binary identities are valid.
You have the absolute right to say who you are (though you don't), and absolutely no right to say who others are.
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Yes they are. Also trans men are men and non-binary identities are valid.
You have the absolute right to say who you are (though you don't), and absolutely no right to say who others are.
AuroraSaab
Squire
What you are re: sex is an immutable scientific fact. It doesn't change because you say 'That's not what I am'.
Gender is made up, so you can be any one of the claimed 200 or so ones that you like. It shouldn't override the material reality of sex in law though.
Gender is made up, so you can be any one of the claimed 200 or so ones that you like. It shouldn't override the material reality of sex in law though.
monkers
Legendary Member
What sex you are, who you are attracted to, your gender identity, your health records - these can all be private matters, or you can shout them from the rooftops if you wish. What you can't do is demand to know who other people are so that you discriminate against them.
But this what is all about isn't it? Your claim to have the right to remain private, and at the same time stick your unwelcome nose into everyone else's private business.
AuroraSaab
Squire
Your sex is on occasion very much relevant to others, so in certain circumstances it is not, and should not be, a private matter. It's certainly not discrimination to acknowledge that in limited situations a person's sex is relevant.
monkers
Legendary Member
Your sex is none of my business. I couldn't care less what you have in your knickers, and I certainly don't need a picture. You'd do well to take the same approach to other people. It's none of your business.
monkers
Legendary Member
Dehumanising language about other people. Nice!
Gender in one sense is taught and performed - and it changes. There aren't 200 genders, there are as many as are taught and performed at any point in time.
Oh you mean gender identity. So the gender that you choose to perform is your gender identity. Of course you don't have one, so you must exist not performing gender - just like women who are forced to exist by men in some countries, swaddled head and face to foot, following along behind your man, not permitted to drive, not permitted to speak - just a baby factory. No thanks.
The biology of sex performs reproduction. There's already way too many of us, so who cares?
AuroraSaab
Squire
Women who are forced to be 'swaddled from head to foot ... not allowed to drive ..' are treated that way because of their sex.
Seems daft to make laws based on this other indefinable thing that not everybody says they have, but which you say is both a performance and can change, as opposed to immutable unchanging sex, which has been the actual basis of women's oppression for millenia.
Seems daft to make laws based on this other indefinable thing that not everybody says they have, but which you say is both a performance and can change, as opposed to immutable unchanging sex, which has been the actual basis of women's oppression for millenia.
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monkers
Legendary Member
Yes. In that culture men control their women by denying them access to their fundamental rights - like an individual identity / personality.
Ding, ding, ding ... you got there.
In so many ways the current UK law, under the auspices of international law is give gender critical women of all types something of what they want. They treat sex as binary even within the GRA. They treat sexual attraction as normative only when it's hetero. They treat reproductive sex as binary and immutable because as we agree it is.
What UK law does for all of us is the right to the full development of our own character. Remove that right to get to trans people, you take it away from us all - that's how it works.
There's a problem though, the people that GC people sought help from to further their cause are not really interested in women's rights, in fact they are against women's rights, but Trump and his new bitch thank women for their votes. Bye bye the notion of ''my body, my right''. You threw the baby out with the bathwater, and I tried so many times to tell you. Sometimes you have to be prepared to take just a little bit of rough to keep things smooth.
Edit: it was scrappy so I threw in a bunch of amendments.
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OP
OP
"slow horse" aka "another sam"
Guest
monkers
Legendary Member
It ain't a good optic when women from the left look to men from the right for help. You think I'm the one that needs to think this through?
I note the WPUK have made a statement. Their grandeur claims are laughable and faux.
We'll see what the Supreme Court come back with, but I'm going to guess that is that the reclaiming motion will fail.
O'Neil's presentation was really poor. FWS looked really pleased when he kept on repeating that the Justices must find for them to confront the patriarchy. The Justices were not sitting for that purpose, they were there to test the construction of the lower court. O'Neil simply wasted their time. Not that the Ministers' Advocate Crawford did a stirling job either, unlike O'Neil and Cooper, she started strongly but then also got herself into difficulties, even with the law in her favour.
I was not surprised to hear Lord Reed say something about, we'll have to go away and carefully read the legislation, an open reference to not being persuaded by any of the arguments presented, and that the test will be how effectively the lower courts read and interpreted them.
BTW ... I'm not on X, why would I be? And BBB is just cash for clicks for dicks, he'll say anything to get likes clicks and subscriptions from his mostly male reactionary right audience, they enjoy the red meat. Oh and he farks up on law quite often too, letting his personal biases shine through.
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AuroraSaab
Squire
Whatever the court result, we will all be the same sex today and tomorrow as we were the day we were born. If the court decides that in effect 'woman' is now a meaningless category because it can include men, it won't do anything to change the material reality that they aren't, nor will it change public perception of the men that claim to be women.
Women will fight on to keep their single sex spaces regardless.
Women will fight on to keep their single sex spaces regardless.
bobzmyunkle
Senior Member
Probably for the best. Alternatively, just have a quick scan of NACA, plenty of sound information there.
monkers
Legendary Member
Indeed this. Just this. This talk about trans women erasing the identity of women has just been years of worthless argument.
