What is a woman?

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monkers

Squire
I just hope that my old friend Nikki, who started the transition process nearly 30yrs ago, can continue to live quietly 'under the radar'. She has a good network of supportive friends, male and female, so with luck is mostly insulated from the hysterical anti-trans crap.

It’s a shame that trans people often feel the need to live quietly just to avoid hostility. But I’m glad Nikki has a supportive network—that makes all the difference. Hopefully, we can work toward a future where trans people don’t have to stay ‘under the radar’ to feel safe.

Likewise N in fact. She rises above the hysterical anti-trans crap though it's impossible not to notice it even though she largely keeps away from social media.
 

CXRAndy

Guru
No person is taught to be trans
Funny that, it's quite the status symbol in Hollywood's actors fraternity. Every other actor has a trans kid.

Yet the wider public far less so and in poor countries virtually unheard of.

So yes it's a taught behaviour
 

monkers

Squire
Sorry miss, please miss can I bring it next week 😜

You have absolutely nothing—no credible data, no logical argument, not even the capacity for critical thinking. Resorting to childish behavior doesn’t excuse your refusal to engage properly. Toddler tantrums won’t work here. Either bring credible evidence, or admit you have none.
 

monkers

Squire
Funny that, it's quite the status symbol in Hollywood's actors fraternity. Every other actor has a trans kid.

Yet the wider public far less so and in poor countries virtually unheard of.

So yes it's a taught behaviour

So do you consider Elon Musk to be a very bad parent or a very good teacher?
 

monkers

Squire
I consider him to have been duped by medical trans zealots from what he has said publicly.

So you believe Musk—a man you admire for his intelligence—was easily manipulated? That’s an interesting stance. Either you think he failed as a parent, or you admit gender identity isn’t something parents control. Which is it? By the way, I really admire his daughter Victoria, she has real inner strength and determination against the odds. Good for her for taking her own agency. Those are the qualities should make any father proud.
 
Unlike externally imposed ideologies—where people are indoctrinated or forced into belief systems—being trans is an intrinsic identity. No one is ‘taught’ to be trans, just as no one is ‘taught’ their innate sense of self."
If it's intrinsic then having a GRC is irrelevant.
The man without a GRC is as much 'trans' as the man with one. Such men are overrepresented in UK sex offending statistics.

It's for you to prove why some men are magically different to other men to the extent that they should be given access to women's spaces when other men aren't.
 

CXRAndy

Guru
So you believe Musk—a man you admire for his intelligence—was easily manipulated? That’s an interesting stance. Either you think he failed as a parent, or you admit gender identity isn’t something parents control. Which is it? By the way, I really admire his daughter Victoria, she has real inner strength and determination against the odds. Good for her for taking her own agency. Those are the qualities should make any father proud.

You were duped into believing the trans ideology, instead of accepting your relative was probably just 'gay'

Allegedly you're a superior being compared to the rest of us 👍
 

spen666

Senior Member
None of your business shithead.

No shortage shitheads here lately, you've become superfluous.

....

Why does CXR Shitehead, Steevo Shitehead, think my business is their business? I don't ask personal questions, neither do I answer them.

Why does CXRShithead always want to offer advice. It's galling when he such an obvious moron.

Honestly the three of you should just go away and get a hobby and leave people to have actual conversations.

Start a pipe smoking club or something.

You make reasonable discussion all but impossible with your tone. ....

...
The last quote is interesting given the earlier quotes
 

monkers

Squire
@AuroraSaab

You remain impervious to facts. You continue to ignore facts in favor of repeating baseless claims.

You have produced no credible evidence of what you claim. Each time you post you express a desire for it to be true to reinforce your ideology.

Trans women are women before the law. In prison record keeping, trans women who commit crimes are recorded as women, The cohort labelled ''transgender women'' are recorded as men. The prison service makes the distinction to ensure the law is applied. The prison service acknowledges this distinction precisely to ensure legal accuracy.

In debating etiquette, it is for the proposer to bring evidence that their claim is true. You haven't done so.

It is not for the respondent to prove otherwise, however I have provided credible evidence from the prison service that what you say is simply not true.

So I find myself having to repeat myself yet again - from the last available data, there were ten serving prisoners with a GRC. We do not know their names, their legal sex/gender, what crimes they have committed, or what prisons they are housed in.

I'll remind you that all prisoners are risk assessed. In some cases female cisgender prisoners who have committed violent crimes against women are risk assessed and serve time in the male prison estate.

I'll further remind you that there is credible data to show that trans women are more vulnerable to violence and sexual attack in prison than cisgender women. Ignoring this reality only fuels harmful misinformation.

I'll further remand you that blanket bans of people with protected characteristics are not lawful. Policy decisions must be evidence-based, not driven by ideological bias.
 
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monkers

Squire
You were duped into believing the trans ideology, instead of accepting your relative was probably just 'gay'

Allegedly you're a superior being compared to the rest of us 👍

If this is the level of argument you’ve reached, it’s clear you have nothing left to say.

You actually pleaded like a child to be forgiven for not having evidence. Now you clearly exhibit the behaviour of a pathetic playground bully. Too old for school - you bring those childhood traits to the forum.

If you were looking for discussion, you'd produce evidence and facts. All you have is your bigotry.

You exhibit a profound lack of human knowledge, compassion, and empathy that together form 'humanity'.

My niece’s life and identity are not yours to speculate on—especially when you’ve contributed nothing of value to this discussion.

Don't trouble me further.
 

monkers

Squire
The last quote is interesting given the earlier quotes

Maybe it that's true I don't always respond to playground bullies politely, though if people are respectful to me, I repay that. As for forum bullies I play with them like a cat with a mouse for a while, until I'm bored then give them a biff and walk away.

Anyway, I've played nicely today.
 
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CXRAndy

Guru
If this is the level of argument you’ve reached, it’s clear you have nothing left to say.

You actually pleaded like a child to be forgiven for not having evidence. Now you clearly exhibit the behaviour of a pathetic playground bully. Too old for school - you bring those childhood traits to the forum.

If you were looking for discussion, you'd produce evidence and facts. All you have is your bigotry.

You exhibit a profound lack of human knowledge, compassion, and empathy that together form 'humanity'.

My niece’s life and identity are not yours to speculate on—especially when you’ve contributed nothing of value to this discussion.

Don't trouble me further.

It has been established that if body dysphoric children were left to their own discovery, go through puberty, in the main come to the conclusion they are just gay, not trans.

You would like to split TiMs with certificates and those without when both are just males . They record a far higher incidence of sexual crimes for their population than general males.
 

monkers

Squire
What I claim is that there are no special subsets of men to whom the long established safeguarding assumptions should not apply. You would have us believe different.

I agree. I don't believe there are subsets of men. Cis gender men are men. Trans men with a GRC are legally men. Trans men without a GRC have the right to live as men.

If my friend stands on a table, shouting ''there's a mouse'', I wouldn't think to ask her what sex it is or start a discussion about gender identities. It's biologically irrelevant. I'd probably ask where she saw it, and try to calm her, a mouse can't hurt a human after all. It's a panic reaction to an irrational fear.

As you said to me the other day, there are only two reproductive pathways. I agree, but it doesn't follow that it's any more true that all cis gender people fit into that than trans people do. My niece has neither reproductive pathway, but then neither do I.

As regard to violence 1 in 6 arrests are females in England and Wales. The data recognises that women tend only to be arrested for violence where there is significant harm, however in the case of men arrests for violence are frequent even when harm has not been caused.

In real everyday terms, women commit more violent acts than transgender people with or without a GRC do every day. Yet trans people are not calling for cisgender people to be banned from public spaces. It would be irrational if they did.
Yes I know that if the data is manipulated enough you can prove anything else.

91% of rapes are committed against women. 72% of homicide victims are male. That's the problem with percentages like these, on their own they fail to show the actual numbers. Whether the numbers are small or large the percentages of victims set out in that binary remain the same, or at least similar.

In round numbers we might see 72 000 rapes committed this year, and maybe 600 murders. The real numbers matter, so these data sets that present data in percentage terms only do not indicate scale.

Rape Crisis do essential work. Their ratios number are clear, but like percentages they fail to indicate that actual scale of the problem. In the sense of scale only real numbers matter.

This is why I resist the use of data that is not meaningful. We must keep it real.

To this end, there are 10 prisoners with a GRC. We don't the ratio of men and women. We don't know the offences committed.

About half of prisoners are serving time for violent and sexual offences.

So let's attempt reasonable assumptions. About 60% of GRCs are held by trans women. So of that 10 maybe 6 are trans women.

Of those 6 maybe 3 have committed violent or sexual offences.

The ratio of violent crime to sexual crime is about 10:1.

Men are more likely to be the victims of violent crime than women. Men are more likely to be the victims of stranger violence.

Taking these factors into account the actual number of trans women who have committed offences against cis women is statistically likely to be zero.

But given Sod's law that there is always an outlier, I will guess the number to be one.

I understand why some want the numbers to support their ideological stance, but facts remain facts regardless of personal bias.
 
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