When were you last inspired by a British politician?

[monkers]

Also annoyingly you appear to be slightly more Irish than I am. If I was entitled to Irish citizenship I'd take it.

If I have this right, we can. It comes within the scope of the Common Travel Area Agreement 1922.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Indeed not. Race is not even about who you happen to be, but also who your ancestors were. I'm in Hampshire, I'm entitled to live in the Republic of Ireland, and to apply for Irish citizenship. If I had an Irish granny, it would be pretty automatic, and I'd be a citizen of the EU. If I then wanted to I could stop being a British citizen. So if we define race by what is written in a passport, we can change it anyway.

I have grandparents of four nationalities (although we never mention the English one in polite company). Sadly, too late to claim EU citizenship, but at least I usually have one team to support in the final stages of sports competitions.

 

[monkers]

@winjim

Irish nationals’ special status in UK law​

Irish nationals have a special status in UK law which is separate to and pre-dates the rights they have as EU citizens.

In short, the Republic of Ireland is not considered to be a ‘foreign country’ for the purpose of UK laws, and Irish citizens are not considered to be ‘aliens’. Furthermore, Irish citizens are treated as if they have permanent immigration permission to remain in the UK from the date they take up ‘ordinary residence’ here.

This special status affects Irish nationals’ rights across a number of areas, including eligibility for British citizenship, eligibility to vote and stand for election, and eligibility for certain welfare benefits. It is thought that, as a result, Irish nationals have more rights than other EU/ EEA nationals resident in the UK.

The CTA 1922 is a reciprocal agreement with the Republic of Ireland that has survived Brexit since it predates the entry of both places (UK and RofI joined EC on same day).

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7661/#:~:text=The Common Travel Area is,Irish Free State in 1922.

 

[winjim]

@winjim


The CTA 1922 is a reciprocal agreement with the Republic of Ireland that has survived Brexit since it predates the entry of both places (UK and RofI joined EC on same day).

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7661/#:~:text=The Common Travel Area is,Irish Free State in 1922.

Maybe I misread, I thought you said you were entitled to citizenship.

Anyway, considering that the English tried to hang my ancestor, I think I should at least get a passport.

 

[monkers]

Maybe I misread, I thought you said you were entitled to citizenship.

Anyway, considering that the English tried to hang my ancestor, I think I should at least get a passport.

There's eligibility for citizenship by reciprocal agreement. If you have an Irish granny, it's pretty much guaranteed I hear, and a faster process.

 

[C R]

Is it not?

You made the assertion, so it is up to you to justify it.

FWIW, I find that calling someone or something antisemitic in this context has completely lost its meaning, same with islamophobic. It is normally wheeled out when uncomfortable things are said about the state of Israel. Note how an Israel skeptical Labour leader was hounded for antisemitism, but hardly a peep from the same quarters was heard when our current home secretary dismissed and belittled in public the experience of an actual holocaust survivor. In that context I can see that Diane Abbott may have had enough of certain racist issues being taken very seriously when it suits, whereas others are routinely ignored.

In any case, this is now way off the topic of this thread.

 

[Rusty Nails]

You made the assertion, so it is up to you to justify it.

FWIW, I find that calling someone or something antisemitic in this context has completely lost its meaning, same with islamophobic. It is normally wheeled out when uncomfortable things are said about the state of Israel. Note how an Israel skeptical Labour leader was hounded for antisemitism, but hardly a peep from the same quarters was heard when our current home secretary dismissed and belittled in public the experience of an actual holocaust survivor. In that context I can see that Diane Abbott may have had enough of certain racist issues being taken very seriously when it suits, whereas others are routinely ignored.

In any case, this is now way off the topic of this thread.

Did I?

Where?

 

[C R]

Did I?

Where?

Sorry, @winjim made the assertion, when I queried the assertion you queried my query.

 

[winjim]

Sorry, @winjim made the assertion, when I queried the assertion you queried my query.

Racism only applies to black people and not Jews (and other groups)?

Yeah, to me that's anti-semitic. Just completely flat out removing 'Jewish' as a racial identity.

 

[Ian H]

Racism only applies to black people and not Jews (and other groups)?

Yeah, to me that's anti-semitic. Just completely flat out removing 'Jewish' as a racial identity.

Racism is most destructive when it's punching down.

 

[mudsticks]

You made the assertion, so it is up to you to justify it.

FWIW, I find that calling someone or something antisemitic in this context has completely lost its meaning, same with islamophobic. It is normally wheeled out when uncomfortable things are said about the state of Israel. Note how an Israel skeptical Labour leader was hounded for antisemitism, but hardly a peep from the same quarters was heard when our current home secretary dismissed and belittled in public the experience of an actual holocaust survivor. In that context I can see that Diane Abbott may have had enough of certain racist issues being taken very seriously when it suits, whereas others are routinely ignored.

In any case, this is now way off the topic of this thread.

Like you say it's way off topic, but seeing as we're here, Abbott has apologised unreservedly for what was clearly a very poorly thought out or worded statement, not sure quite what the context was.

I guess she was clumsily referring to the kind of 'instant' racism that is triggered by certain skin colours or very distinct facial features that can attract slurs, or much worse instantaneously from those of a racist persuasion.



Much of the time it's not at all obvious if someone is Jewish unless they're wearing orthodox clothes for example.
That's not to decry the impact of antisemitism.

But having been on the recieving end of a relentless barrage of very nasty racist (and misogynistic) slurs her whole political career, I don't expect Abbott needs any lectures, from anyone on the evils of racism, or any other kind of prejudice, for that matter.

But of course the usual suspects will make capital out of this.

Even as they continuosly pour scorn on BLM or 'wokeists' at every other opportunity.

Agree re any criticism of Israel and its actions, legitimate protest at the oppression of Palestine is all too easily dismissed by being framed as anti semitism.


Anyway - back on thread..

Harriet Harman - pretty impressive political career on balance.

 

[icowden]

Maybe Abbott just needs to do some reading:-

https://amzn.eu/d/j12Vpk3

Or just some watching on the TV.
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/david-baddiel-jews-dont-count

Both are excellent.

 

[fozy tornip]

David Laws

 

[Deleted member 121]

Dennis Skinner. Met him once and a very nice bloke and one that was never swayed or intimated by the political heavy weights.

 

[C R]

Racism only applies to black people and not Jews (and other groups)?

Yeah, to me that's anti-semitic. Just completely flat out removing 'Jewish' as a racial identity.

She didn't single out jewish people, she also mentioned Irish and travellers. Saying that black people face a daily level of prejudice that jewish people don't is probably just stating the obvious, because most jewish people, as @mudsticks said, just don't look "jewish". Did she deny "jewish existence"? No. Was she antisemitic in the proper sense of the word? Hell No.