A bit rude?

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mudsticks

Squire
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...es-to-academic-for-sexist-derogatory-language

Kidnap, assault and sexual assault, surely, rather than not minding their 'p's and 'q's?
Saw that , and considered posting, but too depressing


Absolutely frkkn outrageous..

Of course it's an 'isolated incident' right??

Nothing to do with an institutionally misogynistic policing culture.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
I don't have the time of day for the police when they behave like this, and it is right that they should be held to account for it.

I also note from a link in the article that Duff is someone who spends her day philosophising about feminism and critical theory, and would like to abolish the police. I wonder just what sort of fantasy world she must be living in.

This was brought home vividly yesterday - you will all no doubt have seen the reports of the gunman at Heidelberg university who killed a student and injured three others. My eldest daughter studies there and was about to go to the campus for a corona test when a phone message said not to. Sirens, helicopters, the works was there. The point is when this sort of thing happens who is it that has to risk their lives to deal with it? It's all very well to want to defund or even abolish the police, but who is going to face the music when the next lunatic who has been nursing grievances for years and/or is on dope decides to extract revenge on innocent bystanders.
 

mudsticks

Squire
I don't have the time of day for the police when they behave like this, and it is right that they should be held to account for it.

I also note from a link in the article that Duff is someone who spends her day philosophising about feminism and critical theory, and would like to abolish the police. I wonder just what sort of fantasy world she must be living in.

This was brought home vividly yesterday - you will all no doubt have seen the reports of the gunman at Heidelberg university who killed a student and injured three others. My eldest daughter studies there and was about to go to the campus for a corona test when a phone message said not to. Sirens, helicopters, the works was there. The point is when this sort of thing happens who is it that has to risk their lives to deal with it? It's all very well to want to defund or even abolish the police, but who is going to face the music when the next lunatic who has been nursing grievances for years and/or is on dope decides to extract revenge on innocent bystanders.
You're trying to shift the discussion elsewhere, as qgc has just robustly pointed out.

The fact that ms Duff spends her time in academic discussions around defunding or the police has zero particular bearing on this case.

The problem is a mysogynistic police culture.

It would be polite at the very least not to try to deflect away from that in the first page.

That 'culture' doesn't come from nowhere, it's indicative of a wider culture of denigrating women, in society at large, viewing their concerns and rights as somehow of lesser import.

Many women don't feel confident in the police to treat them seriously or with respect, if they are threatened or attacked.

Cases like this amply illustrate why that is.

That's what needs tackling, not attacking the academic thesis of a woman assaulted by the police themselves.
 
OP
OP
qigong chimp

qigong chimp

Settler of gobby hash.
This was brought home vividly yesterday - you will all no doubt have seen the reports of the gunman at Heidelberg university who killed a student and injured three others. My eldest daughter studies there and was about to go to the campus for a corona test when a phone message said not to. Sirens, helicopters, the works was there. The point is when this sort of thing happens who is it that has to risk their lives to deal with it? It's all very well to want to defund or even abolish the police, but who is going to face the music when the next lunatic who has been nursing grievances for years and/or is on dope decides to extract revenge on innocent bystanders.
Would someone else like to explain the banality of this post? I find in the shortest of short orders I've lost patience with this drivel and am going to take out my frustration shooting up a campus.
I hope to be taken down by a SWAT team of feminists.
 

mudsticks

Squire
Would someone else like to explain the banality of this post? I find in the shortest of short orders I've lost patience with this drivel and am going to take out my frustration shooting up a campus.
I hope to be taken down by a SWAT team of feminists.

Oh you and your schoolboy fantasies..

I've got some mates who would probs oblige for a fee though
 

Ian H

Guru
If only it were a one-off, just a few bad apples, and the police were, on the whole, wonderful. Instead a whole series of cases reinforces the perception that they are so institutionally rotten that I wonder where you'd begin any attempt at reform. Scrap them and start again? Certainly the current hierarchy still seems more concerned with denial and damage limitation than addressing the problems.
 

mudsticks

Squire
If only it were a one-off, just a few bad apples, and the police were, on the whole, wonderful. Instead a whole series of cases reinforces the perception that they are so institutionally rotten that I wonder where you'd begin any attempt at reform. Scrap them and start again? Certainly the current hierarchy still seems more concerned with denial and damage limitation than addressing the problems.

Yup we heard plenty atrocious tales of locker room culture, turning a blind eye, and going along with the 'bants' so as to stay in with the in crowd, when the Sarah Everard case was under discussion.

The fact that there were also women involved in this assault is depressing but sadly not that surprising.

There are still plenty concious or unconcious female water carriers for the toxic manosphere , out there.

Who can be relied upon to renege on their sisters if called upon to do so, by the dominant male forces.

Classic case of the bullied taking shelter under the wing of those who would otherwise bully them too .
 

AndyRM

Elder Goth
I have weirdly conflicting views about the police.

I've been arrested 7 times, and shot by them twice (rubber bullets, at protest marches, so nothing especially life threatening, but goddamn it hurt).

I know three folk in the force. Two of them are decent and despair that this kind of thing happens. One is an utter c*nt and relishes it.

Sorting the situation out isn't going to happen overnight, but the more that abuses can be taken seriously, the better.
 

swansonj

Regular
And one of the problems is that the job of being a police officer inherently involves being able to impose your will on members of the public, and being encouraged so to do as a legitimate part of the job. That is bound to have an influence on the type of person who joins, the type of person their training and experience makes them, and the culture that prevails. We do not and should not have to accept or endorse the consequences that we see - but it helps to recognise that there are reasons why police services (and military) across the world have these cultural problems.
 

winjim

Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
I think the fact that she may be an activist who wants to abolish the police is kind of the point isn't it? Weren't they trying to teach her a lesson of some sort, hence 'treat her like a terrorist*'?

Of course the problem with that tactic is that if you mistreat an activist, they might just go public with it. Although goodness knows how many women they've used this approach successfully on.

*FWIW I don't think we should treat alleged terrorists like this either, and although I'm not necessarily in favour of abolishing the police, I don't think a bit of discipline should be too much to ask.
 

mudsticks

Squire
And one of the problems is that the job of being a police officer inherently involves being able to impose your will on members of the public, and being encouraged so to do as a legitimate part of the job. That is bound to have an influence on the type of person who joins, the type of person their training and experience makes them, and the culture that prevails. We do not and should not have to accept or endorse the consequences that we see - but it helps to recognise that there are reasons why police services (and military) across the world have these cultural problems.
And therein lies the problem - the idea of policing as inevitably being an occupation where you impose 'your' will ( by some kind of violent means) on someone else - rather than being about upholding the law and protecting people -

Of course i appreciate that in cases of violent crime - restraint that may involve 'violence' of some kind may be a proportionate response

But in policing as a whole - or any other institution - the disrespectful - 'just in it for a ruck' sort of bullies will tend to get the upper hand - and maintain that control - if they can - that's what those sorts of people do

They need weeding out in the selection process first off - not training and validating in that approach

And then seriously dealing with / getting rid of if these tendencies subsequently come to light - no ' turning a blind eye - or dismissing as 'inevitable' .

The police should be 'better' as a cohort of people, than the average in society.

A well respected police force would attract a far better calibre of recruits in the first place - i can sympathise with anyone who feels that the Met for instance is beyond repair.

I think the fact that she may be an activist who wants to abolish the police is kind of the point isn't it? Weren't they trying to teach her a lesson of some sort, hence 'treat her like a terrorist*'?

Of course the problem with that tactic is that if you mistreat an activist, they might just go public with it. Although goodness knows how many women they've used this approach successfully on.

*FWIW I don't think we should treat alleged terrorists like this either, and although I'm not necessarily in favour of abolishing the police, I don't think a bit of discipline should be too much to ask.

Giving credibility to her case around 'defunding' the police.

Why would i go to a police force that allows this kind of behaviour to flourish - seeking any kind of protection or justice -??

in many ways they've used 'this approach' successfully on all of us - already, many women have little faith in the police to help or support them in cases of harassment or worse - jobs a good un if they want to deter any women coming forward.

There's going to be a long road back to building any kind of trust - Are they - or indeed society at large very much bothered ??

Is the key question .
 

Milkfloat

Active Member
I don't have the time of day for the police when they behave like this, and it is right that they should be held to account for it.

I also note from a link in the article that Duff is someone who spends her day philosophising about feminism and critical theory, and would like to abolish the police. I wonder just what sort of fantasy world she must be living in.

This was brought home vividly yesterday - you will all no doubt have seen the reports of the gunman at Heidelberg university who killed a student and injured three others. My eldest daughter studies there and was about to go to the campus for a corona test when a phone message said not to. Sirens, helicopters, the works was there. The point is when this sort of thing happens who is it that has to risk their lives to deal with it? It's all very well to want to defund or even abolish the police, but who is going to face the music when the next lunatic who has been nursing grievances for years and/or is on dope decides to extract revenge on innocent bystanders.
If we had a professional police service that behaved legally and morally correctly then perhaps we would not need activists the rein them in. That way innocent people could go about their business without fearing the very people supposed to protect them AND situations like Heidelberg can get resolved. It should not be an either/or decision.
 
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