Ambulance waiting times

[ebikeerwidnes]

Went for a biek ride this morning and - about noon - came across a lady lying on the grass at the side of the canal with a blanket over her

She had been knocked down by an excited dog and had landed on her knee - which she now couldn't move without extreme pain

I stopped to see if I could help

They had already rung for an ambulance - the current wait time was
ELEVEN HOURS

so it is currently 9:30 p.m. and it has been dark for a few hours
and it was cold out of the sun today

she will still be there lying at he side of the canal and will still have another hours and a half to wait


This is what you get after 12 years of Tory misrule

the problem with social care not being able to put in place resources to get people out of hospital has been around for many many years and has been getting worse and worse
and they have been ignoring it

I know people who work in the NHS and people who used to work there
and they have been seeing this coming for many years

I know the pandemic hasn;t helped - but it has only exagerated something taht should have been fixed years ago


still - at least the economy is looking good!


sorry - rant
but I felt so useless not being able to help the poor woman - I made a few suggestions and got a few nearby people to do a few bits to help
but I just felt - and feel - helpless

 

[Bazzer]

Similar happened to my Mum about 6 weeks ago. She had an unsupervised fall in her care home and was in obvious pain. An ambulance was called and staff were told it would be a 12 hour wait before attendance. My sister and I had to gamble that me taking Mum to hospital did not cause more damage.

 

[BoldonLad]

Perhaps, you should move to Tyne and Wear. A couple of weeks ago, neighbour (aged about 60-65), who is epileptic, had a fit. She fell, and, slightly injured her face. Four, yes, four ambulances turned up, within 30 minutes, and, all 4 were in the street for about three hours.

Neighbour is fine by the way, up and about the next day. She isn’t allowed to drive for a few months.

 

[presta]

There's a health analyst on Twitter (@sib313) who gets exasperated because everyone trots out the usual stuff about more doctors, more hospitals, more money etc., when the root of most of the problem is bed blocking through lack of care home space, and the lack of evidence based policy. It's been a soap box of his for years.

 

[classic33]

There's a health analyst on Twitter (@sib313) who gets exasperated because everyone trots out the usual stuff about more doctors, more hospitals, more money etc., when the root of most of the problem is bed blocking through lack of care home space, and the lack of evidence based policy. It's been a soap box of his for years.

Not everyone who gets taken into hospital by ambulance requires a hospital bed, much less care home space once out.

I'm a frequent traveller in the back of local ambulances, and have been all my life. Only twice being kept on a separate ward in the last 40 plus years, after being seen in A&E. A third time having made my own way there, due to a slight problem in A&E. I leave A&E's feeling a fraud because they've been dealing with more serious cases. Some requiring a stay in hospital, some never actually leaving A&E, but there am I walking out.

The misuse both these services, ambulance and A&E's, get is unbelievable. Add to that targets of responding to types of cases within a set time limit, then deal with them in a set time limit, and you start to see where more feet on the ground can actually help.

 

[Julia9054]

There's a health analyst on Twitter (@sib313) who gets exasperated because everyone trots out the usual stuff about more doctors, more hospitals, more money etc., when the root of most of the problem is bed blocking through lack of care home space, and the lack of evidence based policy. It's been a soap box of his for years.

Not just care home space but lack of social services and community support for discharging people to their own homes.
My dad fell back in April. The ambulance was there within 45 minutes. He then spent 5 days in A&E waiting to be admitted to a ward.
Once on the ward, he was declared medically fit within 48 hours.
He needed social services to assess that his home was suitable and make sure that he wasn't at risk of falling again.
This didn't happen for another 5 days. He was shunted into a Nightingale ward - aka a marquee on the car park. No windows, no TV or patients lounge. Made to wear an adult nappy because there weren't enough staff to escort patients to the toilet and he wasn't allowed to get out of bed and walk there himself.
Meanwhile, some other poor old bugger is stuck in A&E waiting for a bed.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Not just care home space but lack of social services and community support for discharging people to their own homes.
My dad fell back in April. The ambulance was there within 45 minutes. He then spent 5 days in A&E waiting to be admitted to a ward.
Once on the ward, he was declared medically fit within 48 hours.
He needed social services to assess that his home was suitable and make sure that he wasn't at risk of falling again.
This didn't happen for another 5 days. He was shunted into a Nightingale ward - aka a marquee on the car park. No windows, no TV or patients lounge. Made to wear an adult nappy because there weren't enough staff to escort patients to the toilet and he wasn't allowed to get out of bed and walk there himself.
Meanwhile, some other poor old bugger is stuck in A&E waiting for a bed.

Terrible, humiliating treatment for anyone to have to put up with. I saw similar with my dad in the months before he died a few years ago.

But no need to worry. Therese Coffey has said she is on the case, and this is her main priority.

 

[Adam4868]

I've seen first hand lately how stretched the NHS is.Eye opener for my mum who worked in the NHS until she retired.My Dad who's needed to use Ambulances when I wasn't around to take him.Recently left him for 8 hours in a chair in the corridor waiting for a bed,in his 80s getting over Covid and a knee replacement he had a infection.Ended up having to give him a drip as he was so dehydrated.Getting even a docs appointment is a nightmare here.Ring at eight and they'll give you a phone consultation if your lucky.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

Went for a biek ride this morning and - about noon - came across a lady lying on the grass at the side of the canal with a blanket over her

She had been knocked down by an excited dog and had landed on her knee - which she now couldn't move without extreme pain

I stopped to see if I could help

They had already rung for an ambulance - the current wait time was
ELEVEN HOURS

so it is currently 9:30 p.m. and it has been dark for a few hours
and it was cold out of the sun today

she will still be there lying at he side of the canal and will still have another hours and a half to wait


This is what you get after 12 years of Tory misrule

the problem with social care not being able to put in place resources to get people out of hospital has been around for many many years and has been getting worse and worse
and they have been ignoring it

I know people who work in the NHS and people who used to work there
and they have been seeing this coming for many years

I know the pandemic hasn;t helped - but it has only exagerated something taht should have been fixed years ago


still - at least the economy is looking good!


sorry - rant
but I felt so useless not being able to help the poor woman - I made a few suggestions and got a few nearby people to do a few bits to help
but I just felt - and feel - helpless

Put her in a car and take her to ED? That would have helped tremendously.

Ambulance waiting times are poor, but the demand is unprecedented. I am looking at a screen now telling me how many calls are waiting to be allocated, it is very worrying. Not as worrying as the reasons for calling 999 in the first place mind, some of those are bonkers.

But how do we get people out of hospital? There are huge numbers of NCTR patients (No Criteria To Reside, there is no reason for them to be in) in hospitals, dozens and dozens are refusing to leave, and have no earthly reason to still be there and they need no assistance (P0s), others need a little family help (P1s) and the family can get cash for taking them home (£1200) but refuse. The P2s and P3s are more complex, but the P0s should all simply be shown the door this afternoon, but the good old NHS doesn't behave like that, so we keep them in, and this happens!

 

[Bromptonaut]

Put her in a car and take her to ED? That would have helped tremendously.

Ambulance waiting times are poor, but the demand is unprecedented. I am looking at a screen now telling me how many calls are waiting to be allocated, it is very worrying. Not as worrying as the reasons for calling 999 in the first place mind, some of those are bonkers.

But how do we get people out of hospital? There are huge numbers of NCTR patients (No Criteria To Reside, there is no reason for them to be in) in hospitals, dozens and dozens are refusing to leave, and have no earthly reason to still be there and they need no assistance (P0s), others need a little family help (P1s) and the family can get cash for taking them home (£1200) but refuse. The P2s and P3s are more complex, but the P0s should all simply be shown the door this afternoon, but the good old NHS doesn't behave like that, so we keep them in, and this happens!

You say no earthly reason but presumably their refusals to leave are not wholly mute.

Why do they say they will not leave?

 

[Craig the cyclist]

You say no earthly reason but presumably their refusals to leave are not wholly mute.

Why do they say they will not leave?

I could give you a huge list.............

A care home dropped off a resident in to an ED, while she was waiting to be triaged the care home nurse left. For her safety she was admitted into a bed overnight. The care home refuse to have her back, over 100 days later she is still there.

An email from a son of a patient saying that their parent was admitted for a reason, and until the NHS could guarantee they would not get ill again they would not come and get them.

A patient who was admitted at 64 years and 360 days from a care home. Medically well a week later, the facility said they do not take people over 65.

A patients family complained about an aspect of their parents care. They refused to have her home while the complaint was being investigated, that took over, wait for it............1200 days to resolve.

This happens literally every single day.

 

[Mr Celine]

I have had a client whose medical notes showed they had been evicted from a hospital.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

I have had a client whose medical notes showed they had been evicted from a hospital.

Excellent. So what?

 

[Bromptonaut]

Excellent. So what?

The examples you quoted involved four cases.

Two were care homes, presumably in the private sector, being choosy about their clients.

The other two were relatives obstructing discharge.

None illustrate your original 'no earthly reason' assertion.

What should a hospital do with a patient who the care homes don't want to accept or where families cannot or will not cope?

 

[Mr Celine]

Excellent. So what?

So I thought you might like some back up regarding delayed discharges and the issues they cause for hospitals.