Bastard Landlords VI

[Ian H]

I literally know who the landlord and agents are, you colossal fuckwit.

I think you're being a little too kind to CX Randy.

 

[Bromptonaut]

You say it's an HMO. Are the other rooms occupied?

 

[theclaud]

The landlord is over charging by apply a 5 bed rate to a one bed room. The question for me is are they charging everyone in the house the same amount? If so they are making £1828.40 x 5 rooms, on a tax which is only costing them £2437.87.

This was exactly my first thought, but it's more complicated than that. My friend being the honest and law-abiding sort (to a fault) has inadvertently given them the opportunity for the scam by enquiring about whether she owes Council Tax as she is coming to the end of her university course (she lived here last year while studying and so was aware that students are exempt, but it wasn't in a private HMO, so she didn't know that the liability in this case lies with the landlord). The agent's business model is clearly predominantly HMO student lets, but in this case my friend is replacing a student tenant who has left. Obviously it's easier for the agents if all tenants in the property are students, because that qualifies the landlord for a council tax exemption. That's their problem, and there is nothing to prevent them refusing to let a room to a non-student. Instead, they've chosen to let her a room whilst obfuscating the Council Tax rules and swindling her into paying the landlord's tax on the whole property. There's no danger that they don't know what they're doing, because the change in rules for HMOs came in in December, and will have affected almost every property in their portfolio. They initially asked her to pay £300 in Council Tax upfront, which they have no right to do under any circumstances, as only billing authorities can charge Council Tax - landlords simply need to take it into account when setting rent levels. Well, they don't need to, obviously, as they are extracting a fat wad of cash for nothing, but it's understood that they will and everyone is resigned to it. It was only her querying this demand that led to me finding out what they were up to. The other occupants are paying £320. With a student-exempt £0 C Tax bill already issued in March, who here imagines that the agents are going to diligently inform the Council of a change of tenant and incur the landlord a new bill, rather than just pocket the money they have extorted from my young friend? I have a bridge, etc...

 

[theclaud]

You seem to have got a handle on it then being the guarantor

Pop round, tell the landlord, they're shafting the young lady and reduce their charges for her

See where that will get you

Like I said, I eat agents for breakfast, having been renting for 30+ years. But it's not me who stands to get kicked out of their home when they decide they don't want their practices under scrutiny, so (as I've already said) I have talked to my young friend and she has decided to put up with it for a short period as she intends to find somewhere else after three months, and is too busy working minimum-wage jobs to cope with the upheaval of finding somewhere new and moving immediately. Once she's out, I intend to renew my acquaintance with our scummy parasite friends.

 

[Deleted member 159]

extracting a fat wad of cash for nothing

It's not for nothing, they have invested in a property, probably paid for alterations.

Why did you not explain earlier the situation with the other tenants instead of giving half the story

 

[theclaud]

It's not for nothing, they have invested in a property, probably paid for alterations.

Why did you not explain earlier the situation with the other tenants instead of giving half the story

Rent-seeking. Look it up.

I'll tell it how I want, thanks.

 

[Deleted member 159]

I've invested millions in rental properties over the years

I'm proud that I would not rent a property if I wasn't happy to live in it. I renovate, upgrade, decorate all my properties on a regular basis.

I spend tens of thousands each year keeping my properties well maintained. I can honestly say I've had only one or two problem tenants in all my time renting.

 

[theclaud]

 

[theclaud]

It never fails.

 

[C R]

This was exactly my first thought, but it's more complicated than that. My friend being the honest and law-abiding sort (to a fault) has inadvertently given them the opportunity for the scam by enquiring about whether she owes Council Tax as she is coming to the end of her university course (she lived here last year while studying and so was aware that students are exempt, but it wasn't in a private HMO, so she didn't know that the liability in this case lies with the landlord). The agent's business model is clearly predominantly HMO student lets, but in this case my friend is replacing a student tenant who has left. Obviously it's easier for the agents if all tenants in the property are students, because that qualifies the landlord for a council tax exemption. That's their problem, and there is nothing to prevent them refusing to let a room to a non-student. Instead, they've chosen to let her a room whilst obfuscating the Council Tax rules and swindling her into paying the landlord's tax on the whole property. There's no danger that they don't know what they're doing, because the change in rules for HMOs came in in December, and will have affected almost every property in their portfolio. They initially asked her to pay £300 in Council Tax upfront, which they have no right to do under any circumstances, as only billing authorities can charge Council Tax - landlords simply need to take it into account when setting rent levels. Well, they don't need to, obviously, as they are extracting a fat wad of cash for nothing, but it's understood that they will and everyone is resigned to it. It was only her querying this demand that led to me finding out what they were up to. The other occupants are paying £320. With a student-exempt £0 C Tax bill already issued in March, who here imagines that the agents are going to diligently inform the Council of a change of tenant and incur the landlord a new bill, rather than just pocket the money they have extorted from my young friend? I have a bridge, etc...

Ah, I now understand. I suppose it is a tricky one to walk back having given the idea to the blood suckers landlord.

As far as I know there's a reduction in council tax if not all of the occupants are exempt, so she shouldn't have to pony up for the whole property in any case.

 

[theclaud]

Ah, I now understand. I suppose it is a tricky one to walk back having given the idea to the blood suckers landlord.

As far as I know there's a reduction in council tax if not all of the occupants are exempt, so she shouldn't have to pony up for the whole property in any case.

Figures quoted already include the hypothetical discount. It's hypothetical because there isn't a bill, and she isn't liable.

 

[C R]

Figures quoted already include the hypothetical discount. It's hypothetical because there isn't a bill, and she isn't liable.

Well, indeed, if the contract says Council Tax is included, it is clear that they are trying it on and abusing their position.

 

[Bromptonaut]

While I'm as keen as the next Socialist to, come the glorious day, have landlords up against the wall I'm a bit conflicted on this one.

The rate being charged for rent is less than the LHA ceiling for shared accom in Swansea, £86.30 week wheres most Bastard Landlords, use that as a start point. Given how LHA is set you're always likely to pay more for a nice place in a nicer part of town.

If the Landlord had previously let exclusively to students then, presumably, no CT; rent set accordingly. The Claude's friend moves in creating a liability of full CT less single occupier discount. Should the landlord (a) take that on the chin (b) divvy it up amongst all 5 tenants even though the rest are bona fide students or (c) do what she has done here?

How far off what you'd expect for a nice place etc is the total sum passing?

I'm assuming the LL is passing the money to the Council and not pocketing it..

 

[BoldonLad]

........There was a single figure for monthly rent of £472, and underneath that the words 'includes Council Tax'.

Anyway my friend popped in for a chat about something else the following day, and said she didn't really understand how the Council Tax thing worked, so I explained that if they all had separate contracts with the landlord, it was an HMO and the landlord is liable for the tax, and will usually add a bit on to the rent to cover it, whereas if they were joint tenants they would be billed directly and could sort it out amongst themselves. She looked a bit puzzled so I asked her to forward me whatever emails had been sent to her about the council tax.

Not commenting on the morality of the scenario you describe, nor the reasonableness or otherwise of the amounts charged, and, perhaps, my old head has missed something in your explanation, but...

It appears to me that £472/month is the stated amount payable, including Council Tax, and, that is what your colleague is being charged

In your explanation of Council Tax, you state that in the case of an HMO (is it is a HMO?) then the landlord would add a share of the Council tax liability to the rent? If it is not an HMO, then, again, from your explanation, the tenants would be billed separately for the Council Tax.

If all of the other occupants are students (the 25% discount, presumably single occupant discount, suggests this is so), then, the Council Tax only becomes payable because of your colleagues occupancy. It may be unfortunate, for her, but, would the other occupants be willing to share the cost, when they personally have no liability for Council Tax, because of their student status?

I do agree it seems most unfair, but, it appears to my simple head that the unfairness is caused by the Council Tax rules, which are the province of the Council, not the Landlord?

The situation does make me ponder another point, ie, at which point does a "room" become a "dwelling", eg, in an example where there are several apartments in a single building, each dwelling would attract a Council Tax Charge, which would be payable by the Occupant(s). In this example we have (presumably) a single building, with multiple occupiers. Is the deciding factor the "facilities" available to each occupier (eg cooking/kitchen; bathroom, etc) and if these are shared, or, individual to each occupier?

Presumably, there are "rules" to decide these things, but, I have always steered clear of being a Landlord, never felt morally right to me, so, these things are outwith my experience..

 

[farfromtheland]

You said she's 'coming to the end of her university course'? Perhaps she should write to the council and they might agree that there is no council tax liability, given that the other tenants are all students, until her course ends, presumably June this year?

Then, armed with this in writing, get ready for a small claims court application for the 'council tax' she has been charged from the landlord to be refunded, plus reasonable costs, after she's left the place. As it's an HMO flagging this up to the council might give the landlord and agent some questions to answer, depending on the local council's HMO regulatory/inpection practices. Or to save them this a simple refund demand, backed by a renters' union? Or she could withhold a suitable amount from her last payment if she's leaving anyway and doesn't need a reference.