Boris Johnson

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Beebo

Guru
Yes, but noone is forced to eat it.
Anyone looking for a single cause is bound to be wrong. Anyone looking for a simple fix is bound to fail.

No it’s not simple, but if the food wasn’t available it wouldn’t be eaten.
The food is marketed massively by these companies, who can sell you mass produced junk cheaper than you can buy the fresh ingredients.
What we can all agree on, is that it isn’t the Church’s fault.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
I'm sure there are a number of factors at play.

Cheap calorie laden food.
Food that gives an instant reward.
Increasing prosperity/debt for many leading to more food treats.
A societal norm of driving rather than walking/cycling.
Fewer manual jobs.
More sedentary jobs.
Increased number of households with two wage earners, so no one at home to cook healthy food.

Wouldn’t disagree with any of those, but, would add (in connection with driving), streets choked with traffic (moving and/or parked) limit outdoor play spaces.
 

glasgowcyclist

Über Member
Whether this is the cause of the obesity crisis is debatable. I personally think the big food companies are almost certainly to blame for this. They sell terrible food because the regulations allow them to.


I’ll quote myself from a post in another thread, referencing a programme which, I think, sheds a lot of light on the probable cause.

In the first few minutes it deals with the suggestion that it’s down to laziness or will power. But that seems implausible given that the obesity surge, beginning in the mid-‘70s, rises at the same rate across all age groups.

Did everybody simultaneously lose their will power? Nah. The food industry got clever.

Well worth a watch. Link below…
Last night I watched a really interesting programme on how the food industry engineers foods to be addictive. I knew they’d do some trickery but I didn’t expect companies would have their own brain scan facility and neurologists mapping the brain’s response to recipe changes.

Well worth a watch to learn how far they go to use our own bodies’ responses to trick us into buying and consuming absolute junk.

On iPlayer: Irresistible - Why We Can’t Stop Eating

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0025gqs/irresistible-why-we-cant-stop-eating
 
Traffic is a big one. We could play cricket, football or roller skate and ride bikes up and down our residential road all day long. My kids never had that freedom because there are so many more cars, both parked up and driving, that it's not safe to do so.

On diet and the food industry engineering processed food that is super palatable, American journalist Gary Taubes is good. He has a few books out and is on a few podcasts. Basically high carb/sugar diet, engineered by US food lobby is responsible for obesity crisis.
 
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Ian H

Legendary Member
I’ll quote myself from a post in another thread, referencing a programme which, I think, sheds a lot of light on the probable cause.

In the first few minutes it deals with the suggestion that it’s down to laziness or will power. But that seems implausible given that the obesity surge, beginning in the mid-‘70s, rises at the same rate across all age groups.

Did everybody simultaneously lose their will power? Nah. The food industry got clever.

Well worth a watch. Link below…
I think there are several contributory causes, including less physical activity, though that's to do with greater opportunities to avoid exercise - increased car ownership, etc. - rather than actual laziness. But the food industry is certainly a major factor.
 

Psamathe

Regular
The direction the discussion has taken reminded me of the "As Kids" text (that sort of wanders round the internet and nobody knows where it came from and certainly I'm just re-re-re-quoting it
CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THE KIDS WHO WERE BORN IN THE 1940's, 50's, 60's and 70's !!

First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us.

They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a tin, and didn't get tested for diabetes.

Then after that trauma, our baby cots were covered with bright coloured lead-based paints.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking

As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.

Riding in the back of a van - loose - was always great fun.

We drank water from the garden hose pipe and NOT from a bottle.

We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE actually died from this.

We ate cakes, white bread and real butter and drank pop with sugar in it, but we weren't overweight because......

WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING!!

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.

No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K.

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem .

We did not have Play stations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at all, no 99 channels on cable, no video tape movies, no surround sound, no cell phones, no text messaging, no personal computers, no Internet or Internet chat rooms..........WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!

We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits from these accidents .

We played with worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.

Made up games with sticks and tennis balls and although we were told it would happen, we did not poke out any eyes.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just yelled for them!

Local teams had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!!

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!

This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever!

The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.

We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned HOW TO DEAL WITH IT ALL!

And YOU are one of them!

CONGRATULATIONS!
Ian
 

mjr

Active Member
Traffic is a big one. We could play cricket, football or roller skate and ride bikes up and down our residential road all day long. My kids never had that freedom because there are so many more cars, both parked up and driving, that it's not safe to do so.
There were cars parked up where we played but now if you breathe too hard near some cars, its alarm sounds and some snowflake comes to moan at the parents about how much they will have to pay to repaint it because of course the ball will hit it.

Different in my youth. Only worry was if you'd get through the whole 50 overs before having to up stumps for a driver!
 

Psamathe

Regular
I can't overstate how furious that makes me
Sorry. Not sure I understand why. That I'm passing on something that periodically "does the rounds" or elements of the content.

When I've posted it before never got that reaction.
I've always interpreted it as highlighting what we got up to as you gsters in my era, not as advice.

Ian
 
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Ian H

Legendary Member
Sorry. Not sure I understand why. That I'm passing on something that periodically "does the rounds" or elements of the content.

When I've posted it before never got that reaction.
I've always interpreted it as highlighting what we got up to as you gsters in my era, not as advice.

Ian
It can easily be seen as a Rees-Moggian denunciation of modern life, all this elf'n'safety, food-standards kind of rubbish.
 
It's a kind of rose tinted glasses view of the past that forgets that yes we could roam free and eat dirt and we never complained, but we often also lived in slum housing, had no minimum wage, died of diseases that are now treatable, didn't have equal pay for women, and were often a little bit racist to say the least. I had a great childhood but I wouldn't want my kids to have the standard of living I grew up with.
 

Psamathe

Regular
It can easily be seen as a Rees-Moggian denunciation of modern life, all this elf'n'safety, food-standards kind of rubbish.
Never come across it being interpreted like that before and certainly not invoking I can't overstate how furious that makes me. To me it's a light hearted overview of how things were when I was young. If I see any serious side to it it would be prompting the reader to wonder areas where we might have sanitised too far. I can't see anybody seriously thinking it suggesting we restart using lead paint on child cots or that pregnant mum's start smoking.

Never appreciated how sensitive some here can be. My mistake.

Ian
 

Fab Foodie

Legendary Member
On behalf of the food industry....
There's a lot of nonsense written about how the food industry did (and still does) this that and the other to make people fat/unhealthy/hooked etc. etc. I just don't recognise after nearly 40 years in the industry as that being true. Nor have I met anyone who was involved in such activities.

Upthread somebody mentioned that the obesity explosion occurred around mid-70s. I'd pretty-much concur with that, latter half of the 70s/early 80s there's plenty of demographic studies that show similar effects. Look at old pictures pre 1980 - there are very few overweight young people.
The reason as I understand it was primarily (but not singularly) the rise of the 'low fat diet' based on spurious data from atherosclerosis in you US Soldiers in the Vietnam war. I distinctly recall my slightly overweight mother changing Christmas dinner from Goose to Turkey because it was leaner, suddenly skimming the fat off cooked mince, marge instead of butter etc. etc. All of a sudden Gold Top was out and Semi-Skimmed was in. This was not the food industry, it was unchecked 'medical science'. The food industry was probably caught somewhat off-guard.
Ultimately the food industry does like any other consumer facing industry does, that is look to identify rising demand and respond. Witness the rise in low fat/high carb products, diet products, artificial sweeteners, high fibre, fortified, calorie controlled products et al.

It just so happens that late 70s/early 80s also corresponds with the rise of the supermarket, the ready meal, refrigeration and particularly freezers in every home, the rise of the car for 'big shops' the convenience culture, the microwave, more women going back to work/less shopping and cooking time. Remember the huge hit of the M+S Chicken Kiev?
More people, couples families, particularly with women working, made for more affluent and aspiring couples that were time poorer, so they could afford to eat out more often, restaurants boomed, American style convenience foods established themselves in the early 80s across Europe. Food was tasty, convenient affordable and everywhere. The way we lived changed dramatically.
School curriculums reduced sports time at school and sold-off their sports fields. Less walking and biking to school, Kids TV hours were widening. With increasing traffic parents were scared to let their kids play in the streets. Overseas travel broadened the palate, immigration gave us the Chines and Indian takeaway, the fried chicken and kebab shops. Work was changing, less manual labour jobs, shipyards, mines, car plants closed, increased automation, the service economy, in the home the hoover, the washing machine, the tumble-drier, the electric blanket and central heating...so much change in such short time.
Late 70s/early 80 eh?

The food industry is driven by demand, sometimes it creates demand, sometimes it responds to demand created elsewhere. I don't believe it's intrinsically malevolent (other than it wants to make money selling things people want to buy). Yes, it gets things wrong, all industry does. But it primarily responds to a demand. If people don't like or want a product, or it's too expensive, they simply won't repeat buy. People (like me) work to make products that people 'like' for a variety of different reasons. Flavour, succulence, convenience, health, satiety, pleasure, novelty, sociability, authenticity, scrumminess, COST and many other factors go into making products that people like or can afford, pure and simple. Not some golden ratio of x, y and z to make people fat or addicted or unhealthy. Products go through multiple consumer panels for acceptability before any test market is explored. Failure is very expensive. Do you cook food at home that people won't like? Of course not, you want to treat people and hope they'd come back again. It's not perfect, people like sweet things, people like salty things, people like fatty things - bread and dripping anybody? People drive gas-guzzling 4x4s.
Is the food industry perfect? Hell no. Is any big business perfect?
Food is very emotive, cultural, socio-economic, everybody is an expert - the rise of the influencer shows that a little knowledge and a huge ego is a dangerous thing. The world of food is also world of self-appointed experts and snake-oil salesmen.
In reality there is more food knowledge, more food facts, more diet and health facts, more cookery programs, more alternative diets, more ways to eat than there has ever been. Maybe the food industries real failure is to give people choices.

Choices, choices, choices.
The world of food changed significantly from the late 70's/early 80s, but not in isolation. It changed to exploit a rapidly changing world of demands, to advances in technology, supply chains, distribution, advertising and promotion and eating habits. When it comes to the rise in obesity and poor dietary health we cannot simply blame the food industry in isolation.
It's played a part, but it's a bit more complicated than that....



I'll see myself out.
 
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winjim

Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
Sorry. Not sure I understand why. That I'm passing on something that periodically "does the rounds" or elements of the content.

When I've posted it before never got that reaction.
I've always interpreted it as highlighting what we got up to as you gsters in my era, not as advice.

Ian

The people described created the society we live in today and raised the current generation.
 
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