BRFR Cake Stop 'breaking news' miscellany

[PurplePenguin]

This - the Police were attending a call of racially aggravated assault, made by the guy who did the assault, but who said that it was the victim that was the aggressor. It appears that although the victim was bleeding badly from a stab wound, it was in a place where it was not easy to see, and there was only a small amount of blood on the face wound.

The Police did see the victim lose consciousness and started CPR - which probably made things worse due to the serious bleed. All this happened based on information in the 999 call and within a couple of minutes on the ground.

Digwa is a very contemptible individual who directly caused the victim to die by supplying disinformation. Some people are desperate to politicise it and use it as a stick to beat the Police with (and the Sikh community) when they should be pointing the finger solely at the deranged murderer.

Just a point of correction. He caused the individual to die by sticking a knife in his heart.

 

[Dorset Boy]

The 999 call was from the murderer's brother I think (it was reported) and was 20 minutes, all the while stating it was a racially aggrevated attack. The police were therefore expecting the deceased to have been the aggressor, not the victim.

A terrible occurance, and made worse by the lies and deceit of the perpetrator.

And made worse by Fagash politicising it, when the family had expressly asked for that not to happen. Mind you, Starmer's comments blaming the officers haven't helped either.

 

[First Aspect]

I struggling slightly still. If you attend the scene of a reported crime and there are two people, it is one word against another. In this instance someone was cut and bleeding facially, and accused of having said something to the other.

So the only actual evidence was that one person had been physically assaulted. Which would have been a crime (absent self defence) regardless of what the other person had said.

Why on earth was only one person arrested? Amy why put of the two of them was it the only person against which there was any physical evidence of a crime having occurred?

On the basis of the facts at hand, either it should have been both or neither of them, surely? I suspect the PCC will come to a conclusion somewhat along those lines, but not be overly critical of how they handled the actual medical emergency.

 

[Pblakeney]

It is unusual that the victim of assault is standing while the perpetrator is prone so I am still confused.
I fully agree that the blame lies at the door of the murderer, and that Fagash is stoking an unnecessary fire but the actions of the police baffle me.

 

[icowden]

Just a point of correction. He caused the individual to die by sticking a knife in his heart.

I didn't say that he didn't, but Digwa's deliberate concealment of the facts caused Henry not to be properly examined earlier. If you look at the footage it is not apparent that he has been fatally stabbed at all, neither the front nor back of his white shirt show any blood, and in the semi darkness, any blood on his black jumper has not been seen.

 

[icowden]

I struggling slightly still. If you attend the scene of a reported crime and there are two people, it is one word against another. In this instance someone was cut and bleeding facially, and accused of having said something to the other.

In the footage it's pretty clear. A man is telling them he has been assaulted. A family has found another man on the floor, one shoe missing as if he has been trying to escape from the scene of the crime.

Why on earth was only one person arrested? Amy why put of the two of them was it the only person against which there was any physical evidence of a crime having occurred?

Because you don't normally immediately arrest the victim of a crime. The Police have been told that Digwa is the victim, and Digwa reinforces this. Henry isn't conscious enough to get them to look at where his worst stab wound is, he only mentions his face. It's possible that someone more medically trained would have spotted that there must be a reason that he is collapsed and motionless.

 

[briantrumpet]

Stephen Bush in the FT – seems like a fair summary.

https://archive.ph/RwdCv

There is a reasonable debate to be had about how suspects are treated. But we should be clear that the issue here wasn’t that the Hampshire police decided that an accusation of racism was more serious than a stabbing. It was that, faced with two people giving a false account of what had happened and one person telling the truth, they sided with two over one. As a result they treated the victim as a suspect, and in England, being treated as a suspect by the police meant he was treated in ways that made his last moments worse. Whatever we think should be done differently has to start by grappling with that truth.

 

[First Aspect]

Stephen Bush in the FT – seems like a fair summary.

https://archive.ph/RwdCv

I don't even think that analysis quite stacks up. The two people were related and the one person was bleeding and had a shoe missing.

That's more consistent with being assaulted than escaping the scene of a crime, no?

At best, there was a failure to consider the evidence of their own eyes and ask what had happened based on that.

 

[Dorset Boy]

I don't even think that analysis quite stacks up. The two people were related and the one person was bleeding and had a shoe missing.

That's more consistent with being assaulted than escaping the scene of a crime, no?

At best, there was a failure to consider the evidence of their own eyes and ask what had happened based on that.

The reports suggest there was no obvious visual sign that Henry had been stabbed.

 

[briantrumpet]

I don't even think that analysis quite stacks up. The two people were related and the one person was bleeding and had a shoe missing.

That's more consistent with being assaulted than escaping the scene of a crime, no?

At best, there was a failure to consider the evidence of their own eyes and ask what had happened based on that.

This is your analysis after more than 24 hours of mulling it over, without the intervention of adrenaline, policing experience, or lack of daylight. OK. I think Stephen Bush's is more realistic.

 

[First Aspect]

This is your analysis after more than 24 hours of mulling it over, without the intervention of adrenaline, policing experience, or lack of daylight. OK. I think Stephen Bush's is more realistic.

We are all breaking my rule of letting it play out before coming to conclusions.

I think the FT analysis is exactly what happened, and what typically happens. So it is arguably on point I suppose l, if you are assessing whether the outrage is justified over any other day or the week.

I'm not sure whether this is what should normally happen though. Perhaps it is, because police need to adopt a precautionary principle. I really don't know.

 

[briantrumpet]

We are all breaking my rule of letting it play out before coming to conclusions.

I think the FT analysis is exactly what happened, and what typically happens. So it is arguably on point I suppose l, if you are assessing whether the outrage is justified over any other day or the week.

I'm not sure whether this is what should normally happen though. Perhaps it is, because police need to adopt a precautionary principle. I really don't know.

That's a better response. There are some topics I'm happy to wade in on without knowing the facts, or even suspicions, given that this is the internet. This is not one.

 

[Rusty Nails]

What I think is this.....

On second thoughts what I think means diddly squat because I wasn't there, I haven't heard the full emergency telephone call to the police, and I have only seen edited clips of the event from a bodycam.

So I prefer not let my own biased opinions of police practice, "two-tier" policing, racism etc. muddy the water further.

 

[PurplePenguin]

I didn't say that he didn't, but Digwa's deliberate concealment of the facts caused Henry not to be properly examined earlier. If you look at the footage it is not apparent that he has been fatally stabbed at all, neither the front nor back of his white shirt show any blood, and in the semi darkness, any blood on his black jumper has not been seen.

I'm in agreement, but I think the fact that he died because he was stabbed in the heart seems to have been lost from a lot of the discussion which is why I mentioned it. As per my quote above, there was nothing anyone could have done to save him.

 

[briantrumpet]

What I think is this.....

On second thoughts what I think means diddly squat because I wasn't there, I haven't heard the full emergency telephone call to the police, and I have only seen edited clips of the event from a bodycam.

So I prefer not let my own biased opinions of police practice, "two-tier" policing, racism etc. muddy the water further.

I haven't even seen the clips, nor am I going to watch them, as 1) it's ghoulish, to my mind, and 2) they are only a tiny part of the picture.