Random political stuff - old news, or not news

[farfromtheland]

1. better traffic flow less congestion, cars less bunched up so junctions are quicker.
2. speed limits don’t teach road safety. Phone zombies gonna zombie.
3. downhills are less inspiring in built up areas whatever the speed.
4. blankets are not only permissible in Wales they are advisory in certain circumstances.

Apologies Rusty Nails and First Aspect, I'll try and answer you here too.

1 - 20 mph limits work (or not) in conjunction with traffic light phasing.
The phasing here has not been well adjusted to the new limits, and fewer cars make it through a phase even when traffic is light, causing more stop-starts overall. Braking and acceleration cause more pollution than steady speeds. Not exactly congestion but amounts to much the same. This is my experience. Other districts may have organised things better. Urban areas and Motorways are clearly different.

Roadworks tend to be messy here yes.
Traffic level is technically increased if cars go slower. It takes longer to get there at 20 mph than at 30 mph so we're on the road longer for the same trip. This interacts with point 1. If the number of trips made is reduced in favour of bus travel because of this, ok, but if not, not.
I feel this private journey is reduction is the aim of the limits. The introduction of 20 mph limits in Tower Hamlets was almost a cause of gridlock. I also feel there are a lot of major roads where 30 mph would make for better flow in any case. Greenwich still has some 30 mph bits with 20mph near schools, see below.

2 - If road safety education was happening, this major argument used for low limits would be somewhat negated.
There are lovely signs on side roads drawn by children to reinforce the 20 mph message. However some drivers don't respect them, and my observation is that children are less cautious in looking and listening than they used to be. This is a correlation not a related causation but it bears investigation.

3 - Hmm, maybe, but what about at night or quiet times?

4 - I don't claim to live in Wales.

All this may seem less worthy of debate than political views but the South Circular congestion has caused pollution death. Congestion zone pricing brought pollution measures down. My experience as a driver was that 20mph limits put it up a bit again. Research hasn't really happened. It's subjective for now.

I'd generally prefer to see better driving education, especially as to indicating, rather than a simple tendency to restrict in law and settle that drivers (and pedestrians) are inevitably careless.

 

[farfromtheland]

Also I know some of the above seems counter-intuitive. However as 20mph limits seem often to be a concern of the right-wing tendency I try to think about it rather than assuming the answers are given facts.

Low traffic zones are definitely a cause of more congestion in working class areas where the traffic tends to go instead. That's probably more important.

 

[Mr Celine]

I have 3 arguments against blanket 20 mph limits,
1. tend to congest
2. don't do enough to encourage road safety education for children or phone zombies
3. make cycling downhill less inspiring

'Blanket' 20mph limits were introduced in the Borders during lockdown.

1. Nonsense. Traffic flows far more smoothly.
2. Children and phone zombies have a right to be on the road. It's drivers' responsibility to avoid them, which is easier at 20mph.
3. Permanent speed limits only apply to motor vehicles.

 

[farfromtheland]

2. Children and phone zombies have a right to be on the road. It's drivers' responsibility to avoid them, which is easier at 20mph.

Not so sure. I once had a woman push a pram into the road in front of my bike, when riding at around 20mph.

 

[Pblakeney]

Not so sure. I once had a woman push a pram into the road in front of my bike, when riding at around 20mph.

Would you have preferred to have "met" that woman at 20mph, or at 30mph?
Seriously, it makes a massive difference, and the speed limit won't affect her decision making.

 

[Pblakeney]

It's amazing how many of those with strong views on the subject don't live here or drive here on a regular basis.

They have "genuine concerns" that if successful then the 20mph limit is coming to an area near them.
(Gawd, I detest that phrase).

 

[Mr Celine]

Not so sure. I once had a woman push a pram into the road in front of my bike, when riding at around 20mph.

And no doubt you made every effort to avoid a collision or to mitigate the effects if one occurred.
Or did you just plough on regardless then blame the victim?

 

[farfromtheland]

And no doubt you made every effort to avoid a collision or to mitigate the effects if one occurred.
Or did you just plough on regardless then blame the victim?

Careful mate, you just said fixed limits don't apply to cyclists?
I'd rather not have had to slam the brakes on there.

The baby would have been the 'victim'. Or me if I'd I'd swerved out to miss them.

 

[farfromtheland]

Seriously... the speed limit won't affect her decision making.

Are you sure?

 

[Pblakeney]

Are you sure?

As there are stories of it happening with cars in a 30mph zone, I'm certain.

 

[secretsqirrel]

Careful mate, you just said fixed limits don't apply to cyclists?
I'd rather not have had to slam the brakes on there.

The baby would have been the 'victim'. Or me if I'd I'd swerved out to miss them.

On the scale of vulnerability in the Highway code, you have responsibility to look out for more vulnerable road users.

 

[First Aspect]

On the scale of vulnerability in the Highway code, you have responsibility to look out for more vulnerable road users.

View attachment 17336

As far as I can tell whenever a driver just drives at me along one of the lanes here, this means that because I am so vulnerable, I need to be more careful because of blind bends.

The highway code changes are pointless unless we have clear presumed liability (civil liability) and it hits people in insurance premiums.

 

[briantrumpet]

The highway code changes are pointless unless we have clear presumed liability (civil liability) and it hits people in insurance premiums.

"War against cars!!"