BRFR Cake Stop 'breaking news' miscellany

[Fab Foodie]

Thing is, we won't get early access to the e-gates. We won't get access until the EU eventually brings in the EES which has seen big delays, and we were getting access to them at that point anyway.....

October has been mooted...I can wait.

 

[First Aspect]

It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to come-up with a pretty clear set of guidelines as to what constitutes 'Wild Camping' on Open-access areas/national park.
Wild Camping on Dartmoor (and in fact most other wild spaces and national parks) has been going-on without issue for Donkeys years primarily by low impact backpackers. Covid brought a big change unfortunately, especially in the National Parks -no longer back-packs it was pop-up tents, bbqs etc. at local beauty spots with rubbish left behind. People doing that should be rightly prosecuted.
Most proper wild campers are invisible, there for one night only, and leave no evidence of their having been there. That needs protecting.

There are guidelines in Scotland. They are all good common sense, routinely ignored and unenforceable.

 

[First Aspect]

It was the specificity of this case that made it so egregious: they obviously thought they could overturn something well established and understood, by using clever language games to claim that words didn't mean what they obviously did mean, for financial gain.

OOI, what's not working well in Scotland?

Honey traps, basically.

I.e. particular places that attract disproportionate numbers of visitors. This brings litter, parking issues, noise, damage to trees, human and dog excrement etc. I moved 13 years ago to near a series of reservoirs outside of Edinburgh. During and after COVID, it would attract 100+ cars on weekends/ holidays such that locals could not get in or out of their houses due to back to back parking over about a 2 mile stretch of single track road. One person meets another going the opposite way, or parks too far out, that's the road blocked.

Trees were felled for firewood, people camped for weeks at a time, right next to their cars, parties all night you name it. People used to order take aways tontheir tents.

There was another such spot in the Pentland Hills, another I found down in the Borders, several around Loch Lomond and the Trossachs. It got so bad in the national park, in the end the national park authority passed bylaws prohibiting camping entirely outside of designated sites. Which has ruined it for everyone. Local councils can't ever get their act together to do the same.

I believe the NC500 route is not faring any better. Complete poison chalice that one.

The problem is the volume of people in the UK. It ceases to be an effective policy if you share it with 100s or thousands of others in the same place. And out of those people a minority will be inconsiderate choppers, inevitably.

Note England is 5-10 times more densely populated than Scotland. It would be horrendous down here because too many people are stupid and selfish.

 

[Ian H]

Honey traps, basically.

I.e. particular places that attract disproportionate numbers of visitors. This brings litter, parking issues, noise, damage to trees, human and dog excrement etc. I moved 13 years ago to near a series of reservoirs outside of Edinburgh. During and after COVID, it would attract 100+ cars on weekends/ holidays such that locals could not get in or out of their houses due to back to back parking over about a 2 mile stretch of single track road. One person meets another going the opposite way, or parks too far out, that's the road blocked.

Trees were felled for firewood, people camped for weeks at a time, right next to their cars, parties all night you name it. People used to order take aways tontheir tents.

There was another such spot in the Pentland Hills, another I found down in the Borders, several around Loch Lomond and the Trossachs. It got so bad in the national park, in the end the national park authority passed bylaws prohibiting camping entirely outside of designated sites. Which has ruined it for everyone. Local councils can't ever get their act together to do the same.

I believe the NC500 route is not faring any better. Complete poison chalice that one.

The problem is the volume of people in the UK. It ceases to be an effective policy if you share it with 100s or thousands of others in the same place. And out of those people a minority will be inconsiderate choppers, inevitably.

Note England is 5-10 times more densely populated than Scotland. It would be horrendous down here because too many people are stupid and selfish.

So should most of the land remain the private playground of the wealthy?

 

[First Aspect]

So should most of the land remain the private playground of the wealthy?

Difficult to say. I'm certainly in favour of vigorously protecting footpaths. And a right to roam with caveats as previously outlined (and which weren't inserted into the Scottish legislation) may square the circle. For example, you wouldn't expect the right to roam to include marking in a layby and spending the night. Or sleeping on a public road on a camper van. Or camping for weeks within 50 yards of someone's house. But it does in Scotland.

I also consider that the right to roam works generally well in those areas where we might expect it to - in the mountains and "wild" areas of Scotland that are difficult to get to. Neds don't tend to walk far, basically.

However these areas aren't easy to define, there are hotspots where real damage and impact on locals occurs, and there are far more such places within east reach of large conurbations in England than there are in Scotland.

So whereas ar a high level the right to roam seems fair and reasonable, in practice as I said, be careful what you wish for.

 

[PurplePenguin]

I have some sympathy for farmers on this given the number of people who are in capable of closing gates and keeping dogs on leads.

 

[Fab Foodie]

I have some sympathy for farmers on this given the number of people who are in capable of closing gates and keeping dogs on leads.

The Countryside Code's advice regarding gates is to leave them as you find them. This means closing a gate if it was closed when you passed through, and leaving it open if it was open. The reason for this is to prevent farm animals from straying, and to avoid hindering farm operations.

 

[Ian H]

The Countryside Code's advice regarding gates is to leave them as you find them. This means closing a gate if it was closed when you passed through, and leaving it open if it was open. The reason for this is to prevent farm animals from straying, and to avoid hindering farm operations.

This becomes problematic when you are unsure whether an earlier party failed to close said gate.

 

[First Aspect]

The Countryside Code's advice regarding gates is to leave them as you find them. This means closing a gate if it was closed when you passed through, and leaving it open if it was open. The reason for this is to prevent farm animals from straying, and to avoid hindering farm operations.

Is the countryside code that document that people who leave gates open have never read?

"Guidance" is the proverbial knife taken to a gunfight.

"Excuse me young sirs,.it says in the countryside code that you shouldn't leave your child's nappy there."

"fark off you old bastard."

 

[Stevo 666]

So you mean all that guff that Andy posts about Reform polling well ahead of the Conservatives is just made up. After all, it's just based on assumptions and extrapolation therefore it's meaning less.

Also, I think you should let Rachel Reeves know that the Office for Budget Responsibility is a waste of money. All of their output is based on assumptions and extrapolations.

In fact, we should stop planning anything as planning is based on assumptions and extrapolation. Complete waste of time.

I take it that you're familiar with the nature of forecasts of any complex systems and their inherent unreliability, especially over longer periods.

 

[BoldonLad]

It's easy to be blasé when you aren't personally affected but plenty of people in industries that relied on trade with EU countries and EU support (fishing and farming being the obvious examples always trotted out) were badly impacted by this. Brexit voters in general talk a lot about patriotism and sovereignty and bettering the UK, but voting for something that made your fellow citizens poorer and then pretending it never happened, or worse still, not giving a toss about them, is hardly patriotic.

Are there any reliable figures for how these groups voted in the Referendum?

 

[Stevo 666]

It's easy to be blasé when you aren't personally affected but plenty of people in industries that relied on trade with EU countries and EU support (fishing and farming being the obvious examples always trotted out) were badly impacted by this. Brexit voters in general talk a lot about patriotism and sovereignty and bettering the UK, but voting for something that made your fellow citizens poorer and then pretending it never happened, or worse still, not giving a toss about them, is hardly patriotic.

You could say the same about people who voted Labour into power.

 

[BoldonLad]

So you mean all that guff that Andy posts about Reform polling well ahead of the Conservatives is just made up. After all, it's just based on assumptions and extrapolation therefore it's meaning less.

Also, I think you should let Rachel Reeves know that the Office for Budget Responsibility is a waste of money. All of their output is based on assumptions and extrapolations.

In fact, we should stop planning anything as planning is based on assumptions and extrapolation. Complete waste of time.

The only Poll that counts is the General Election (or Local Council Elections, if appropriate)

 

[BoldonLad]

Honey traps, basically.

I.e. particular places that attract disproportionate numbers of visitors. This brings litter, parking issues, noise, damage to trees, human and dog excrement etc. I moved 13 years ago to near a series of reservoirs outside of Edinburgh. During and after COVID, it would attract 100+ cars on weekends/ holidays such that locals could not get in or out of their houses due to back to back parking over about a 2 mile stretch of single track road. One person meets another going the opposite way, or parks too far out, that's the road blocked.

Trees were felled for firewood, people camped for weeks at a time, right next to their cars, parties all night you name it. People used to order take aways tontheir tents.

There was another such spot in the Pentland Hills, another I found down in the Borders, several around Loch Lomond and the Trossachs. It got so bad in the national park, in the end the national park authority passed bylaws prohibiting camping entirely outside of designated sites. Which has ruined it for everyone. Local councils can't ever get their act together to do the same.

I believe the NC500 route is not faring any better. Complete poison chalice that one.

The problem is the volume of people in the UK. It ceases to be an effective policy if you share it with 100s or thousands of others in the same place. And out of those people a minority will be inconsiderate choppers, inevitably.

Note England is 5-10 times more densely populated than Scotland. It would be horrendous down here because too many people are stupid and selfish.

True

 

[PurplePenguin]

The Countryside Code's advice regarding gates is to leave them as you find them. This means closing a gate if it was closed when you passed through, and leaving it open if it was open. The reason for this is to prevent farm animals from straying, and to avoid hindering farm operations.

I'm not expecting them to close gates that are already open. Just not mess stuff up which seems beyond many.