BRFR Cake Stop 'breaking news' miscellany

[PurplePenguin]

I wasn't sure how to shoehorn the Falklands into that too, for added bantz.

The British position is very clear. Self-determination above all else. It's actually something the UK does well which is a result of losing an Empire. I think a lot of the rest of the world is less keen on the concept. Anyway, see Brexit as a salient example that is often on your mind.

 

[briantrumpet]

The British position is very clear. Self-determination above all else. It's actually something the UK does well which is a result of losing an Empire. I think a lot of the rest of the world is less keen on the concept. Anyway, see Brexit as a salient example that is often on your mind.

I think the majority on the Falklands is somewhat more than 52/48, but I might be wrong.

The French are terrible at it.

 

[Pblakeney]

I wasn't sure how to shoehorn the Falklands into that too, for added bantz.

Awkwardly I imagine. Was Ceuta ever part of Morocco? Yes, or at least to the people who lived in the region. Was Gibraltar ever part of Spain? Yes, or at least Spanish territories. The Falklands have never been part of Argentina.

 

[PurplePenguin]

I think the majority on the Falklands is somewhat more than 52/48, but I might be wrong.

The French are terrible at it.

Does it matter? Quebec voted against independence by a narrow margin. Newfoundland voted to join Canada by a narrow margin. People still go on about those decisions, but ultimately it is the only way it can work.

 

[briantrumpet]

Does it matter? Quebec voted against independence by a narrow margin. Newfoundland voted to join Canada by a narrow margin. People still go on about those decisions, but ultimately it is the only way it can work.

Often it does matter for a major constitutional change. If we had a Brentry vote tomorrow and the majority was 52/48 in favour, would that be enough? I think not.

 

[Pblakeney]

Often it does matter for a major constitutional change. If we had a Brentry vote tomorrow and the majority was 52/48 in favour, would that be enough? I think not.

I always thought that it should have been 60% minimum.
Same applies to Brentry, or any other major constitutional change.

 

[briantrumpet]

I always thought that it should have been 60% minimum.
Same applies to Brentry, or any other major constitutional change.

I know that we litigated this to death over on Cake Stop.

 

[PurplePenguin]

I know that we litigated this to death over on Cake Stop.

Does that pass your acceptable usage test? I know it is in vogue, but we weren't in court.

 

[briantrumpet]

Does that pass your acceptable usage test? I know it is in vogue, but we weren't in court.

Well, it was good enough for Walpole, amongst others. (Thanks for the excuse to log into the OED, BTW.)

 

[briantrumpet]

Well, it was good enough for Walpole, amongst others. (Thanks for the excuse to log into the OED, BTW.)

View attachment 16574

BTW, if you want some light reading on the role of metaphor in linguistics and cognition, this will keep you busy for several minutes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptual_metaphor

tl;dr - most language is metaphorical, so the idea of legal litigation takes an easy step over to a long argument trying to tease out the truth in a statement.

 

[PurplePenguin]

BTW, if you want some light reading on the role of metaphor in linguistics and cognition, this will keep you busy for several minutes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptual_metaphor

tl;dr - most language is metaphorical, so the idea of legal litigation takes an easy step over to a long argument trying to tease out the truth in a statement.

Can you find a dictionary that supports this? I know JD Vance told Zelenskyy not to litigate an issue, but the whole point of litigation to me is that it is in court, so the sentence "I argued the issue to death, but I'm simply not willing to litigate it" has meaning and has a metaphor to keep you happy.

 

[briantrumpet]

Can you find a dictionary that supports this? I know JD Vance told Zelenskyy not to litigate an issue, but the whole point of litigation to me is that it is in court, so the sentence "I argued the issue to death, but I'm simply not willing to litigate it" has meaning and has a metaphor to keep you happy.

I just did: the OED. Post above the Wikipedia metaphor one. It's been used in the non-legal sense for over 250 years.

If you're going to reject metaphor and semantic shift, your lexicon is going to be extremely limited.

 

[Ian H]

I just did: the OED. Post above the Wikipedia metaphor one. It's been used in the non-legal sense for over 250 years.

If you're going to reject metaphor and semantic shift, your lexicon is going to be extremely limited.

Merriam-Webster gives the metaphorical sense as Archaic.

 

[PurplePenguin]

I just did: the OED. Post above the Wikipedia metaphor one. It's been used in the non-legal sense for over 250 years.

If you're going to reject metaphor and semantic shift, your lexicon is going to be extremely limited.

It was used in a none legal sense, but times change. It's not in Chambers, for example, or another dictionary I consulted.

I also think your reference to metaphors is unhelpful. They're supposed to add colour without being misleading. In my example, it's clear I didn't die making the argument. The modern interpretation of litigate is to take something to court, so using it as a metaphor for arguing doesn't work in my view. E.g. "The brute murdered him" well he didn't actually he merely stabbed him 20 times, but he lived. That's also a bad metaphor.

Anyway, it's a minor point we'll need to disagree on.

 

[briantrumpet]

Merriam-Webster gives the metaphorical sense as Archaic.

Sums me up too.