But Where Are You Really From?

[icowden]

Just for clarity - is this just about words being used in a negative way? e.g. moving from
"purple people are often disadvantaged in the workplace, and we can help them by ... " to
"Those farking purple people have farked this country right up" etc?

(genuine question, as usage evolves in all sorts of ways)

Yes essentially.

 

[mudsticks]

Common yes, acceptable no.

I dare say phrases like that will always be used but I doubt they were ever thought upon as correct unlike the ones that were for a while and now aren't, even though they were dreamt up by the very people who wanted change.


Absolutely agree but it still doesn't explain why the terms chosen by the people in the first place are now unacceptable does it?

It's seems as if certain groups just want to cause issues where there aren't any to me.

It seems that way to you perhaps because you're not the one affected.

There can be many reasons why previously acceptable terms are now no longer ok, probs too complicated and detailed to go into here, even if I had time (and i don't, because as you'll have noticed there's only an hour of working daylight left)

tbh in your situation it probs doesn't matter too much about more generalised terms such as Bame , or whatever, as it's not your field of engagement.

Just keep being decent to everyone you meet, and call out any obvious (to you) racism that you encounter.

You'll be fine.

 

[All uphill]

I suspect that if I was in a minority (as I have been in the past) I would be uncomfortable with the use of any term which identifies me as different. This would be particularly so if I feared the term was used by the majority in a way to disadvantage or denigrate me.

People with empathy and people like me might then look for another inoffensive term.

The only way, I think, that any descriptor will permanently be acceptable is if general society does not attach any stigma to that group.

That can happen - "irish" has very different connotations now in England than it did fifty years ago, imo.

 

[BoldonLad]

I suspect that if I was in a minority (as I have been in the past) I would be uncomfortable with the use of any term which identifies me as different. This would be particularly so if I feared the term was used by the majority in a way to disadvantage or denigrate me.

People with empathy and people like me might then look for another inoffensive term.

The only way, I think, that any descriptor will permanently be acceptable is if general society does not attach any stigma to that group.

That can happen - "irish" has very different connotations now in England than it did fifty years ago, imo.

Quite

 

[matticus]

even if I had time (and i don't, because as you'll have noticed there's only an hour of working daylight left)

tbh in your situation it probs doesn't matter too much about more generalised terms such as Bame , or whatever, as it's not your field of engagement.

Just keep being decent to everyone you meet, and call out any obvious (to you) racism that you encounter.

You'll be fine.

Flippin heck - I think I like the running-out-of-daylight version of Mudsticks!

Seems perfectly sensible to me.

(Whatever next?!?)

 

[Deleted member 28]

That can happen - "irish" has very different connotations now in England than it did fifty years ago, imo.

What?
Apart from saying 'no Irish ' how different can it be?

Still no one seems to be able to answer why terms created FOR minority groups BY minority groups can suddenly become 'out of favour '.

C'mon people, you must know.

 

[Deleted member 28]

Out of interest, who do you think is best placed to decide? The group affected or some white blokes?

The people affected obviously, that's why I'm confused.

How many different terms do 'white blokes ' need to learn before we get it right?

 

[Deleted member 28]

It seems that way to you perhaps because you're not the one affected.

There can be many reasons why previously acceptable terms are now no longer ok, probs too complicated and detailed to go into here, even if I had time (and i don't, because as you'll have noticed there's only an hour of working daylight left)

tbh in your situation it probs doesn't matter too much about more generalised terms such as Bame , or whatever, as it's not your field of engagement.

Just keep being decent to everyone you meet, and call out any obvious (to you) racism that you encounter.

You'll be fine.

No, please find the time to speak on behalf of our downtrodden minorities that have chosen their favoured labels but then find them unacceptable.

 

[icowden]

Still no one seems to be able to answer why terms created FOR minority groups BY minority groups can suddenly become 'out of favour '.
C'mon people, you must know.

We do. We just can't find small enough words for you. Maybe big ones will help?
THINGS CHANGE

 

[mudsticks]

Enlighten me, misapprehension?

Reference shuttlecocks, I would explain to the best of my knowledge and if you failed to understand then I would leave you to it.

So...............,please explain, once will do why terms created very recently by minorities are now unacceptable to those that created them.

"please explain, once will do"


In fact i took the risk of trying to explain twice.

The first time you even seemed to get a slight glimmer of enlightenment -


But obviously that sliver of brightness has since faded dimly into the watery sunset of the westering sky.

I'm certainly not trying thrice-times as that would probs summon some evil sprite that would perforce blight the crops for six generations- or somesuch - plus even my (apparently legendary) patience has its limits.

Others may have an appetite for such endless repetition - good luck to them says i - but now i need to go put the chickens to bed

 

[Ian H]

I just rediscovered this, from some years ago. The late, great Darcus Howe travelling around England trying to find what is the essence of Englishness. It makes for fascinating, uncomfortable viewing. https://www.channel4.com/programmes/white-tribe/on-demand/26974-001

 

[All uphill]

"please explain, once will do"


In fact i took the risk of trying to explain twice.

The first time you even seemed to get a slight glimmer of enlightenment -


But obviously that sliver of brightness has since faded dimly into the watery sunset of the westering sky.

I'm certainly not trying thrice-times as that would probs summon some evil sprite that would perforce blight the crops for six generations- or somesuch - plus even my (apparently legendary) patience has its limits.

Others may have an appetite for such endless repetition - good luck to them says i - but now i need to go put the chickens to bed

I get that. I'm sure the chickens will appreciate your efforts.

I tried to explain that innocent words get tainted when they become associated with prejudice, and so new ones are needed until the underlying prejuidice is overcome. I'm not trying a second time.

 

[Deleted member 28]

"please explain, once will do"


In fact i took the risk of trying to explain twice.

The first time you even seemed to get a slight glimmer of enlightenment -

There can be many reasons why previously acceptable terms are now no longer ok, probs too complicated and detailed to go into here, even if I had time (and i don't, because as you'll have noticed there's only an hour of working daylight left)

That's cleared it up then.

 

[Deleted member 28]

We do. We just can't find small enough words for you. Maybe big ones will help?
THINGS CHANGE
View attachment 2668

Cop out of the highest order.

 

[mudsticks]

That's cleared it up then.

If I , or anyone else troubled to write a long essay going over the many points already made here - would you bother to read it??

The problem is not that no one has explained the reasons for language usage changing over time

The problem seems to lie elsewhere -
It's one or possibly all of the following

Poor reading comprehension on your part .

Difficulty processing and retaining information.

Or that you're really not that interested in answers or learning , and are only interested in trying to wind folk up.

That gets pretty dull pretty quick.

Here you said..

Not bad, many thanks.

So in a nutshell certain members of certain groups decided certain terms used to describe them were acceptable to some of them (possibly) but maybe not all of them but they went with it anyway and then when certain members of said groups decided they didn't like it anymore (or maybe never did) people get chastised for using an 'out of date ' term that they didn't really know who, why or where it came from in the first place.

Nowt as funny as folk.

That you'd understood
Now you're saying you don't ...

Why should anyone make more efforts to explain when you're so resistant to even trying to understand??

Try re reading the thread whilst engaging your brain.