Climate Crisis: Are we doing enough?

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Rusty Nails

Country Member
Do developers not also drive on the M25?
Do gov staff never watch the snooker??

The relevant head offices are all in Central London, so ANY disruption there will be in their eyeline.

P.s. it was someone before Ratner, try again. No not the Suffragettes! ;⁠-⁠)

Of course some drive on the M25, and some watch snooker, but the likelihood of any action personally inconveniencing them, especially those who have the influence or power to change things, and bringing about change is ridiculously small. It will affect and annoy many, many more people who are not in those groups. This is an extreme example of the scatter gun approach.

Read my post again. I did not say Ratner used that quote, it was an approach referred to by Dr Gardner in the interesting video you posted earlier. I used the example of Ratner to show that all publicity is not good publicity.

As I said in my response to @mudsticks I have no issue with disruptive protest as a principle...it can work... but do not believe it is always the most effective way of bringing about change. You apparently disagree, fair enough, but me not believing in its effectiveness in all cases will not stop one protest taking place.
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
Yes, that's a valid point; but most of the likely victims of climate change also get little say in delaying it.

Arguably the Suffragettes were acting completely selfishly; CC protestors are acting for those with little say, who are not even their neighbours.

That's the first time I've heard of the campaign for votes for women being described as a selfish endeavour! How could British women bring about change for anyone else if they didn't have the vote themselves?

As an aside, whilst Emmeline Pankhust campaigned for equity in voting rights (ie the same rules to apply to women as to men), Sylvia Pankhurst wanted universal suffrage. It was an issue of contention between those in the suffrage movement, both men and women.

I take your point about climate change campaigns being in part on behalf of those in the developing world who are unable to effect change though.
 

mudsticks

Squire
Of course they can work, and there is nothing at all wrong with the principle of disruptive protest, a la tree-huggers, but imo for it to work it is best if it targets or directly affects those who the protest is aimed at...like the developers, government departments or fossil fuel companies etc.
While gaining widespread publicity or a scatter gun approach seems to be an objective of some protests I have never gone along with "there is no such thing as bad publicity" (Gerald Ratner?), and have doubts that disruptive protest that annoys/inconveniences those people they should be drawing to their cause works...even if the people demonstrating are " 'respectable' educated people, doctors, teachers, scientists, lawyers (farmers even)" that the great unwashed should be impressed by.

In these times of great uncertainty it gets confusing as to whom is washed or unwashed doesn't it.??

Time was us protestors and activists.were labelled 'unwashed' 'rent a mob' who 'need to get a job'

Now it turns out many of us do have jobs (and also wash) but we also give up our 'spare' time to engage in activism on this urgent planetary issue..

I guess we're all going to be labelled as 'middle class do gooders' with no grasp on reality now.??

Or some such.
Oh well, just as well we don't expect to be thanked.

The fact is climate change is already 'disrupting' many peoples lives now..
People are being displaced by it, and being made to go hungry, being killed by extreme climate change related weather events.

They just don't happen to be the people who regularly use the M25, or whatever.

Disruptive protest, isn't one solution by itself.
There's also lots of lobbying, and education, solution finding, awareness raising and so on to do too,

It's way too simplistic to suggest that there's only one effective method.

Just as the actions we need to take to achieve climate justice, are complex, so are the points of leverage required to keep this issue front and centre of policy.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
Nothing 'we' do is going to achieve anything. Britain and Germany each contribute 2% each to carbon emissions. If this were reduced to zero in the next few years it will make no difference when the East is still increasing emissions.

The Green vote here is in free fall at the moment due to expensive measures being introduced that will place a heavy burden on the working class or pensioners to achieve virtually nothing.

Like getting rid of nuclear power before renewables are in place this is driven by ideology and not a particularly rational one at that.
 

matticus

Guru
Nothing 'we' do is going to achieve anything. Britain and Germany each contribute 2% each to carbon emissions. If this were reduced to zero in the next few years it will make no difference when the East is still increasing emissions.

This is terribly flawed. For one thing, it is our purchases of Chinese goods that drives their emissions.
Secondly, where does the buck stop? What if the cleaner half of China point the finger at the more polluting half? Does 99% of humanity have no obligation to do anything, whilst they can blame the worst 1%?
Remember Brits are worse per capita than India and China, so China can point their fingers at us!
 

albion

Guru
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/12/labour-mp-rachael-maskell-10mph-speed-limit-mark-harper/

Seems we need something drastic to make the roads safe for pedestrians and cyclists.
It will also move 100s of thousands over to ebikes, if safe ebikes are at least as fast.

The Torygraph hates the nation of course.
 
Starmer....
We're all gonna die...but thanks to our fiscal rules at least we'll be debt free.

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