BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
Interesting proposal to protect the Welsh Language https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-29846655
Discrimination?
- Thread starter BoldonLad
- Start date
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Mad Doug Biker
Just plodding along as always.
- Location
- Over there, somewhere.
You should see the quite frankly disgusting attitude some people have up here towards Scottish Gaelic. Welsh is positively healthy in comparison!
OP
OP
BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
The claim in this instance is the Welsh is being deleted by non-Welsh speaking "in-comers".
I am not familiar with the challenges being faced by Scottish Gaelic, if it is a similar problem, perhaps, similar tactics would help?
Mad Doug Biker
Just plodding along as always.
- Location
- Over there, somewhere.
The problem in Scotland is that Gaelic was mainly spoken in the north and Islands (before that, Norse in certain places... And before that... Anyway, you get the jist), whereas 'Scots' English was in the south (Rabbie Burns, etc).
There are also dialects like Doric and Shetlandic.
Since the majority of the population are in the south, Gaelic is seen as a language of backward, sheep sh*gging 'Teuchters' and people who base their entire life on the film Braveheart (I have still to actually meet such a person).
Granted, 99.999% of the population can speak and understand English, like in Wales, but people seem to think that Gaelic has no historical worth whatsoever and actively attack it at any opportunity. 🙄
Anyway, back to Welsh...
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First Aspect
Active Member
Sorry if it's a naive question, but from personal experience, the language used in Scotland doesn't seem to make it any less Scottish. Language changes, languages die. What's the merit in preserving one that will, as a living language rather than a historical record, cease to be a living language if left to its own accord?
Not particularly singling out Welsh here, nor am I completely blind to the reasons advanced - e.g. in the Pacific north west they argue that there are words that express cultural concepts and their relationship with nature that have no equivalent in English.
Just not sure that applies in general. Nor sure if that's really the motivation in Wales.
Feel free to shoot me down.
Not particularly singling out Welsh here, nor am I completely blind to the reasons advanced - e.g. in the Pacific north west they argue that there are words that express cultural concepts and their relationship with nature that have no equivalent in English.
Just not sure that applies in general. Nor sure if that's really the motivation in Wales.
Feel free to shoot me down.
classic33
Myself
Gaelic in itself is seen as a dying language, with no use in todays world, apart for the tourists. A product that can be sold, rather than something worth keeping.
Similar situation in Ireland, with the number of speakers dropping every year. The same goes for those who can understand it, when spoken by someone who is fluent in it.
RTE do however support the language.
Similar situation in Ireland, with the number of speakers dropping every year. The same goes for those who can understand it, when spoken by someone who is fluent in it.
RTE do however support the language.
Mad Doug Biker
Just plodding along as always.
- Location
- Over there, somewhere.
Scottish Gaelic is still 'living', it's used in the Hebrides and so on (there's also a small community in the west of Glasgow, which might sound odd, but it's people from the Highlands).
I will admit the numbers speaking it are small though.
As for it being for the tourists, yes, you are right...When the locals use it to insult said tourists to their face!
No the problem in Scotland is that people actually seem to hate it and it's popular to denigrate it at any opportunity.
Oh and don't even think about putting signage up without people raging about how it is a waste of money and how it should be banned, etc etc.
People really do seem genuinely to have a problem with it.
Incidentally, it's 'Gah - lic', Irish is 'Gay - lic'.
I will admit the numbers speaking it are small though.
As for it being for the tourists, yes, you are right...When the locals use it to insult said tourists to their face!
No the problem in Scotland is that people actually seem to hate it and it's popular to denigrate it at any opportunity.
Oh and don't even think about putting signage up without people raging about how it is a waste of money and how it should be banned, etc etc.
People really do seem genuinely to have a problem with it.
Incidentally, it's 'Gah - lic', Irish is 'Gay - lic'.
briantrumpet
Senior Member
It's an interesting question. I think the death of 'indigenous languages' is something to mourn, as the world becomes a more monochrome place without the wealth of so many varied languages and their cultural/historical baggage, but when a language loses its usefulness to a population, it will die. People are trying to revive Cornish (another Celtic language), but trying to bring back a language when the last native speaker has died seems a total waste of time (sorry, @First Aspect - I know you're itching to learn it).
I ought to get this book, as he's always enlightening.
https://www.amazon.com/Language-Death-Canto-Classics-Crystal-dp-1107431816/dp/1107431816
I ought to get this book, as he's always enlightening.
https://www.amazon.com/Language-Death-Canto-Classics-Crystal-dp-1107431816/dp/1107431816
First Aspect
Active Member
Not sure I heard anyone criticise Gaelic in Scotland in 2 decades up here (currently back visiting), except perhaps spending on things to do with it. Bur crap incomprehensible poetry in a dialect of English is generally seen as more Scottish.
Don't know about Welsh, or how the Welsh view it's promotion there.
Don't know about Welsh, or how the Welsh view it's promotion there.
Mad Doug Biker
Just plodding along as always.
- Location
- Over there, somewhere.
Trust me, I have. It's all part of the 'Scottish Cringe', the 'To wee and too stupid' mentality that so many have here. The 'I love Scotland, but...' people. I am mentioning no referendums here.
The whole north - south thing doesn't help either, but also I think people slag it simply because they never encounter it or understand it.
Mad Doug Biker
Just plodding along as always.
- Location
- Over there, somewhere.
Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
I visit Harris regularly and will arrive there tomorrow evening. We've been going for 40 years.
Gaelic is still spoken in the home by local people but there are lot in incomers, particularly on the south of the island who don't even try to pick up a few words.
The biggest killer though was the arrival of TV.
Gaelic is still spoken in the home by local people but there are lot in incomers, particularly on the south of the island who don't even try to pick up a few words.
The biggest killer though was the arrival of TV.
OP
OP
BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
I don’t know any more about it than the BBC reporting. I have no connection with Wales.
My only thought was that it is a bit “Reform like” to be trying to stop “incommers”,
Blazing Saddles
Member
I have heard of some of the Polish folks living in West Wales have learned to speak Welsh and their children are able to speak Welsh since attending school.