Donald I, emperor of the world.

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YTSAndy is certainly knocking them out tonight.

Both hands working overtime.

:music:
 

All uphill

Senior Member
Could you give me an example of good contract design and regulation? Throw in delivery timescale for good measure? Please?

None that is perfect, of course, but I notice that we don't experience power cuts as we used to, our local train company provides, ime, cleaner more reliable, and more customer friendly services than BR ever did, and our rubbish collection (private provider) is reliable and efficient.

Compared with the monolithic, investment starved, poorly managed services I remember from the 1970s that feels like progress.
 

Pblakeney

Über Member
None that is perfect, of course, but I notice that we don't experience power cuts as we used to, our local train company provides, ime, cleaner more reliable, and more customer friendly services than BR ever did, and our rubbish collection (private provider) is reliable and efficient.

Compared with the monolithic, investment starved, poorly managed services I remember from the 1970s that feels like progress.

All personal, and anecdotal. 70s strikes aside, I get as many power cuts as I ever did, trains are so unreliable that I stopped using them, and the rubbish collection while reliable is less and less frequent. That is my personal anecdotal experience. I don't feel much progress from the 80s.
 
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Pross

Well-Known Member
All personal, and anecdotal. 70s strikes aside, I get as many power cuts as I ever did, trains are so unreliable that I stopped using them, and the rubbish collection while reliable is less and less frequent. That is my personal anecdotal experience. I don't feel much progress from the 80s.

To be fair the less frequent refuse collection is a deliberate environmental policy to encourage recycling. 1980s refuse collection was putting as many bins or bags of unsorted waste out for collection and dumping in landfill (other than maybe some newspaper recycling, Oxfam taking silver foil and your glass bottles going for re-use).
 
To be fair the less frequent refuse collection is a deliberate environmental policy to encourage recycling. 1980s refuse collection was putting as many bins or bags of unsorted waste out for collection and dumping in landfill (other than maybe some newspaper recycling, Oxfam taking silver foil and your glass bottles going for re-use).

There was a fascinating programme (BBC, I think) called 'The Secret Life of Rubbish', which documented the ballooning of rubbish from the 1950s onwards, when the 'easy disposal' of rubbish (and no thought about the consequences) let to the ballooning of how much stuff people threw away. Up till that point, 'dustbins' were mostly just for dust and ashes from open fires; food was barely wasted (I'm reminded of Mum putting literally a couple of spoonfuls of left-over baked beans or peas in a Tupperware to save to put in a stew or something another day), clothes and linen was repaired (eurgh, darned socks and sheets stiched back together), and most furniture & appliances lasted decades. Kitchens and bathrooms weren't replaced for decades.

I'm definitely not saying that was better (see 'darned socks'), but now we seem (rightly) to be pushing back a teensy weensy bit on profligate waste.
 

Pblakeney

Über Member
There was a fascinating programme (BBC, I think) called 'The Secret Life of Rubbish', which documented the ballooning of rubbish from the 1950s onwards, when the 'easy disposal' of rubbish (and no thought about the consequences) let to the ballooning of how much stuff people threw away. Up till that point, 'dustbins' were mostly just for dust and ashes from open fires; food was barely wasted (I'm reminded of Mum putting literally a couple of spoonfuls of left-over baked beans or peas in a Tupperware to save to put in a stew or something another day), clothes and linen was repaired (eurgh, darned socks and sheets stiched back together), and most furniture & appliances lasted decades. Kitchens and bathrooms weren't replaced for decades.

I'm definitely not saying that was better (see 'darned socks'), but now we seem (rightly) to be pushing back a teensy weensy bit on profligate waste.

Some of us never moved on. We’ll, apart from the darned socks. 😉
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
There was a fascinating programme (BBC, I think) called 'The Secret Life of Rubbish', which documented the ballooning of rubbish from the 1950s onwards, when the 'easy disposal' of rubbish (and no thought about the consequences) let to the ballooning of how much stuff people threw away. Up till that point, 'dustbins' were mostly just for dust and ashes from open fires; food was barely wasted (I'm reminded of Mum putting literally a couple of spoonfuls of left-over baked beans or peas in a Tupperware to save to put in a stew or something another day), clothes and linen was repaired (eurgh, darned socks and sheets stiched back together), and most furniture & appliances lasted decades. Kitchens and bathrooms weren't replaced for decades.

I'm definitely not saying that was better (see 'darned socks'), but now we seem (rightly) to be pushing back a teensy weensy bit on profligate waste.

Steady on Brian, you are making me come on all nostalgic for my 1950s childhood 😂

Back then, in the unusual even of a full dustbin, it was solved when you next emptied the hot ashes out of the fire, and set the bin alight. Ah happy days 😂
 

Pross

Well-Known Member
Steady on Brian, you are making me come on all nostalgic for my 1950s childhood 😂

Back then, in the unusual even of a full dustbin, it was solved when you next emptied the hot ashes out of the fire, and set the bin alight. Ah happy days 😂

But did you throw the lit bin at a hotel?
 

Pinno718

Über Member
We produce so much more waste than in years gone by.

The UK has this insatiable appetite for cheap goods and with that is a lot of waste that has 0 value.
We have yet to instil the ethic 'there's no such thing as throwing way'. I thoroughly believe that waste and the environment should be part of the curriculum. In my previous capacity, we used to visit schools and we had many school visits where even teachers were unaware of the facts and figures. Children who were woken up to the implications and effects of waste became quite militant.
It was campaigns such as 2m seabirds per year being killed by carrier bags and seals and dolphins being strangled by the plastic ring hoops for beer cans that lead to their ban. When you enlighten the public they respond very positively but the message is not being emphasised.
You can promote the idea from a simple financial POV - you don't have to be a tree hugger to see the benefits.

The Guardian indicated district councils in England spent 32% of their total council tax revenue on waste disposal, highlighting the significant variability and changing nature of waste expenditure.

Another concept: 'From cradle to grave' where the manufacturers of the future waste have to pay in part for the recycling of that waste. This would incentivise the use of recyclable plastics. A tax on profit based on waste figures? Contentious but entirely feasible. There is so much data on waste and there are waste transfer notes for everything that goes through legitimate channels. Notice how the mushroom punnets are now mostly HPDE often (same as milk bottle plastic and recyclable unlike the hard clear plastic). We need to standardise plastic for food through legislation so that we don't have such a disparity of recyclable and unrecyclable materials. We need to incentivise production of recyclable plastics - reward companies who find innovation in packaging and we need to legislate so that the manufacture (where there is a choice) is not this current, sporadic and voluntary approach.
If we slapped £x surcharge on every import for EOL purposes, we may actually deal with it better.
Your Chinese dress from Temu that costs £10 might go up to £12 but it's still affordable. Your TV with all it's hard plastics and complex WEEE requirements may go up by 5% but it's entirely necessary. Manufacturers will adapt to remain competitive. We are paying through the nose not only directly in council tax bills but also because the waste participle in council budgets is taking money away from other budgets. We are also paying a huge environmental cost.
We have to address this issue or it will be unsustainable. It's not particularly sustainable now.

I am in the waste management bizness, so you boys better be good.
 

Pblakeney

Über Member
Notice how the mushroom punnets are now mostly HPDE often (same as milk bottle plastic and recyclable unlike the hard clear plastic). We need to standardise plastic for food through legislation so that we don't have such a disparity of recyclable and unrecyclable materials.
I have noticed a further change to recyclable paper boxes. Maybe one day they will rediscover paper bags.
 

Pinno718

Über Member
It's not a clear-cut thing about paper bags, in environmental terms, once you take things such as transportation costs and water usage into account.

Waste paper is worth between £35 and £70 per ton and corrugated cardboard between %0 and £120 per ton.
The value of High-Density Polyethylene (HPPE) waste plastic in the UK fluctuates, but in mid-2024, natural HDPE bales were valued between approximately £465-£565 per tonne and mixed colour HDPE bales between £240-£320 per tonne, according to data from letsrecycle.com. The type of plastic, its purity, and market demand significantly influence its price, with high-purity HDPE being more valuable than mixed-colour waste.
 
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