Donald I, emperor of the world.

[Ian H]

Maybe they don't need one now... put in Vance and throw Trump to the wolves, which will cause plenty of distraction.

I think he's still useful to that motley crew of billionaire ultra-conservatives and Christian-fascists.

 

[briantrumpet]

I think he's still useful to that motley crew of billionaire ultra-conservatives and Christian-fascists.

Maybe, but they'll turn the moment they think he's lost his usefulness. As I say, there might be some 'unusual channels of communication' going on at the moment... I was remembering that Thatcher was indirectly negotiating with the IRA in 1981... strange things can happen in extremis, if one or both parties can see a benefit, however far apart the parties might appear to be.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-16366413

 

[Pblakeney]

Maybe, but they'll turn the moment they think he's lost his usefulness. As I say, there might be some 'unusual channels of communication' going on at the moment... I was remembering that Thatcher was indirectly negotiating with the IRA in 1981... strange things can happen in extremis, if one or both parties can see a benefit, however far apart the parties might appear to be.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-16366413

You are comparing Maggie to Donnie? 😱
The situations might be comparable but not the minds.

 

[Ian H]

You are comparing Maggie to Donnie? 😱
The situations might be comparable but not the minds.

Ooh, I don't know - Thatcher wrecked the unions, manufacturing, sowed division. She even snatched the milk from primary school children.

 

[briantrumpet]

You are comparing Maggie to Donnie? 😱
The situations might be comparable but not the minds.

C'mon, wake up, PB, obviously not. The parallel is a vaguely sane British PM opening a channel of communication with a terrorist group (I think it's fair to call both the IRA and Miller's cabal that) with whom you'd have thought they'd never ever talk to, being diametrically opposed in almost every sense. Politics and international affairs can be a messy and bewildering business.

You'll probably also remember that the IRA tried to kill Thatcher three years later. But in the end, we got the Good Friday Agreement.

 

[briantrumpet]

She even snatched the milk from primary school children.

Don't worry, JFK Jnr is now trying to force feed US kids with unpasteurised milk, so everything will balance out.

 

[Pblakeney]

C'mon, wake up, PB, obviously not. The parallel is a vaguely sane British PM opening a channel of communication with a terrorist group (I think it's fair to call both the IRA and Miller's cabal that) with whom you'd have thought they'd never ever talk to, being diametrically opposed in almost every sense. Politics and international affairs can be a messy and bewildering business.

You'll probably also remember that the IRA tried to kill Thatcher three years later. But in the end, we got the Good Friday Agreement.

Yes. I got that. Donnie is totally incapable of that though. Unless sufficiently bribed to do so.
You could claim that Donnie has a channel of communication with Putin. Not doing the world any favours, but it exists.

 

[Pblakeney]

Ooh, I don't know - Thatcher wrecked the unions, manufacturing, sowed division. She even snatched the milk from primary school children.

Yeahbut, she knew what she was doing. She was mostly likely fully aware of the consequences too.
I didn't say she was nice.

 

[briantrumpet]

Yes. I got that. Donnie is totally incapable of that though. Unless sufficiently bribed to do so.
You could claim that Donnie has a channel of communication with Putin. Not doing the world any favours, but it exists.

You're still not getting it. No-one talks to Trump. They talk to the evil bastards who haven't got decomposing brains. No point in talking to Trump, as he'd have forgotten by the morning.

 

[Pblakeney]

You're still not getting it. No-one talks to Trump. They talk to the evil bastards who haven't got decomposing brains. No point in talking to Trump, as he'd have forgotten by the morning.

Sorry, but various others are spouting the same BS. Miller and Bessent for example (the evil bastards?).
Donnie might well just be an echo chamber repeating what they've said. That is not reassuring, and doesn't change where we are.

 

[briantrumpet]

Sorry, but various others are spouting the same BS. Miller and Bessent for example (the evil bastards?).
Donnie might well just be an echo chamber repeating what they've said. That is not reassuring, and doesn't change where we are.

Fully aware of that, but I expect hardened foreign affairs people to find out what they might say out of earshot of Trump, even if they are evil fuckers and it goes nowhere eventually. I suspect that the UK diplomatic service has quite a bit of experience in talking to evil bastards, and finding ways to persuade them to do things they might not initially want to do.

Don't get me wrong – I think Miller and co are a load of actual fascists who are terrorising US citizens and using Trump to try to destroy central chunks of Western democracy. But short of starting a war, or shutting down the economy, I'd expect European governments to try every means & sneaky trick to make them realise that they ain't going to succeed, especially if they let Trump carry on as he is.

The thought experiment would be whether WW2 would have happened without Hitler. How would MAGA react to being de-Trumped? More or less dangerous? Dunno.

 

[Pblakeney]

Fully aware of that, but I expect hardened foreign affairs people to find out what they might say out of earshot of Trump, even if they are evil fuckers and it goes nowhere eventually. I suspect that the UK diplomatic service has quite a bit of experience in talking to evil bastards, and finding ways to persuade them to do things they might not initially want to do.

Don't get me wrong – I think Miller and co are a load of actual fascists who are terrorising US citizens and using Trump to try to destroy central chunks of Western democracy. But short of starting a war, or shutting down the economy, I'd expect European governments to try every means & sneaky trick to make them realise that they ain't going to succeed, especially if they let Trump carry on as he is.

The thought experiment would be whether WW2 would have happened without Hitler. How would MAGA react to being de-Trumped? More or less dangerous? Dunno.

I hope that you are correct, but fear that you are wrong out of wishful thinking. I do not think those in charge at the moment (regardless of figurehead) are interested in negotiating. A seismic governmental change is required and I do not see where it could come from.

 

[briantrumpet]

I hope that you are correct, but fear that you are wrong out of wishful thinking. I do not think those in charge at the moment (regardless of figurehead) are interested in negotiating. A seismic governmental change is required and I do not see where it could come from.

You might well be right, but even just letting the heat go out of the moment won't do any harm. It's not an immediate emergency (assuming Trump isn't going to dump an atomic bomb on Greenland, Norway or Denmark, so it's worth pursuing all 'diplomatic pressure' means before raising the risk levels even higher and making diplomacy even less likely to work. Happy for the diplomats to play very dirty.

 

[Pblakeney]

You might well be right, but even just letting the heat go out of the moment won't do any harm. It's not an immediate emergency (assuming Trump isn't going to dump an atomic bomb on Greenland, Norway or Denmark, so it's worth pursuing all 'diplomatic pressure' means before raising the risk levels even higher and making diplomacy even less likely to work. Happy for the diplomats to play very dirty.

The trouble is that he/they don’t understand diplomacy. If you wish to negotiate you have to let them know that you have a big stick to back it up. Strength is everything, weakness gets trampled on.
Oh! And you have to make it clear that you are willing to use the stick.

 

[briantrumpet]

The trouble is that he/they don’t understand diplomacy. If you wish to negotiate you have to let them know that you have a big stick to back it up. Strength is everything, weakness gets trampled on.
Oh! And you have to make it clear that you are willing to use the stick.

All part of 'diplomacy', I'd suggest.