Enhanced Britishness

[qigong chimp]

On reflection it's surprising Couzens got such a steep sentence given that of the three elements of the charge against him only her murder might admit of some proper violence. Sarah's abduction seemed polite enough, she may well have consented to sex being raped without any real violence being perpetrated against her, and then merely strangled wasn't it? I've seen people choked into unconsciousness in MMA and it looks quick and painless. It could all have been a lot nastier.
In fact he may have been let down badly by his counsel: the "rough sex gone wrong" defence might have flown in the right hands, or at least resulted in a lesser sentence..
And that two day "send off"? What a grind. It defo needed some wag to interrupt Mrs Everard's dismal victim statement with some saucy heckling along the lines of "Get your tits out love, or your other daughter gets it!" Not terribly PC I concede, but would - I think you'll all agree - have reduced the tension and cheered everyone up a treat.

 

[lazybloke]

Let's have some accuracy.

I said there is no violence in some rapes, which there isn't, even the victims concede that.

As regards Ms Everard, I've seen some murderers receive their life sentences in sentencing hearings lasting no more than 10 minutes.

Yes, there many have been a five or eight day trial, but the sentencing itself does not take very long.

The phrase 'good send off' is one routinely used in court corridors, so offers a little insight into the process.

This hearing was always going to take a little while because of the defendant's guilty pleas, the case had not been opened in public, which it has to be as part of the public administration of justice.

I'd expected a full day, taking it into a second day is unusual, but then it was a very unusual case.

Let's not pretend I misquoted you.
I checked your precise words before posting, and I've just checked again. You said, and I quote word for word - "there is no violence in those rapes".

Your meaning was clear in the other place, and although I disagree with it vehemently, but I wasn't trying to argue; I was merely trying to understand what motivates your choice of language; the legal system, apparently.

It still troubles me though.
A "good send off" is a perfect way to describe a funeral, because a funeral is a celebration of a life.
It seems a tad insensitive to use the phrase to describe a murder trial, in which Sarah's parents and sister heard the most revolting and harrowing details of events in March. If the prosecution is successful, I'd expect to hear something like "justice is served".


And not sure what you mean about the trial taking time. Personally i thought the whole matter (from arrest to sentencing) was extremely quick, despite the case against Couzens seemingly being meticulously researched and overwhelming in establishing guilt.

 

[swansonj]

In two respects, - "a good send off", and whether rape without can ever be non-violent - Pale Rider is presenting then defending a position that, entirely predictably , many of us find offensive, and, in the latter case, just plain wrong.

It is possible he made the original comments without realising the offensiveness and now, psychologically, is unable to back down so is digging himself deeper. It seems to me more likely he was aware of the offensiveness right from the start, did it knowingly, and is quite enjoying the offence he has caused.

 

[mudsticks]

At least there’s some wry amusement to be had watching those contortions. Rape, not so much.

Well you say that, but there is, apparently a whole 'cinematic' sub genre dedicated to doing just that.

But it's ok, because it's being consumed by totally sorted 'adults' fully able to discern right from wrong.

And who are fully onboard with having complete respect for other human beings, their bodies and minds.

Particularly the bodies and minds of women.

So it's all ok.

In two respects, - "a good send off", and whether rape without can ever be non-violent - Pale Rider is presenting then defending a position that, entirely predictably , many of us find offensive, and, in the latter case, just plain wrong.

It is possible he made the original comments without realising the offensiveness and now, psychologically, is unable to back down so is digging himself deeper. It seems to me more likely he was aware of the offensiveness right from the start, did it knowingly, and is quite enjoying the offence he has caused.

This is my instinct too.

Especially from someone who allegedly uses words for a living.
It's not 'accidental'

It's attention seeking, the supposedly controversial 'shock jock' approach.

Otherwise known as trolling.

Or 'edgelording' even - according to the kids.


It's not big , it's not clever, and in this case it's just plain offensive, but it's a commonly found approach.

Some easily impressed folks, are just that.
And it's all part of the bloke code.

Of course next up we'll have accusations of an unfair 'pile on'.

But that's just another part of the whole scheme, isn't it.?

 

[Pale Rider]

Put yourself in the place of a victim for a moment. If you submitted to being penetrated against your will out of fear of the same but with an added beating or worse, would you really still say that no violence had taken place? Surely the very act is a violation?

I have asked you the same question twice before and not had a reply, but here’s your chance on the new forum to put that right.

Look up the meaning of violation and come back to me.

Clue: It's got nothing to do with violence.

Let's not pretend I misquoted you.
I checked your precise words before posting, and I've just checked again. You said, and I quote word for word - "there is no violence in those rapes".

Yes, those rapes being those in which the victim submits to the rape in order to avoid violence.

In two respects, - "a good send off", and whether rape without can ever be non-violent - Pale Rider is presenting then defending a position that, entirely predictably , many of us find offensive, and, in the latter case, just plain wrong.

Interesting how all the supposed free thinkers on here have such delicate sensibilities.

If you don't like 'good send off', take it up with those in the courts who use it.

Equally, anyone who objects to the concept of a non violent rape ought to tutor the victims who say such a rape has happened to them.

And once again, your crystal ball is in dire need of cleaning.

 

[Pale Rider]

Well you say that, but there is, apparently a whole 'cinematic' sub genre dedicated to doing just that.

But it's ok, because it's being consumed by totally sorted 'adults' fully able to discern right from wrong.

And who are fully onboard with having complete respect for other human beings, their bodies and minds.

Particularly the bodies and minds of women.

So it's all ok.



This is my instinct too.

Especially from someone who allegedly uses words for a living.
It's not 'accidental'

It's attention seeking, the supposedly controversial 'shock jock' approach.

Otherwise known as trolling.

Or 'edgelording' even - according to the kids.


It's not big , it's not clever, and in this case it's just plain offensive, but it's a commonly found approach.

Some easily impressed folks, are just that.
And it's all part of the bloke code.

Of course next up we'll have accusations of an unfair 'pile on'.

But that's just another part of the whole scheme, isn't it.?

Not a bad effort as character assassinations go, although what any of it has anything to do with the topics under discussion is beyond me.

I know you are the self-styled arbiter of all things relating to women, but that is just a delusion on your part.

Yours is not the only view, you don't know everything, and your repeated attempts to lecture the rest of us are just tiresome.

 

[Rusty Nails]

There is none so blind as those that will not see.

 

[mudsticks]

Not a bad effort as character assassinations go, although what any of it has anything to do with the topics under discussion is beyond me.

I know you are the self-styled arbiter of all things relating to women, but that is just a delusion on your part.

Yours is not the only view, you don't know everything, and your repeated attempts to lecture the rest of us are just tiresome.

Well pardon me for being tiresome.

And it would appear many concepts are 'Beyond The Pale '

As it happens yours isn't the only view either.

I expect I speak far more candidly to far more women, than I suspect you ever do.

I've experienced violent abuse at the hands of men .
Some of it sexual .

I am a member of several women's only groups, centred around outdoor activities such as cycling, where a common theme is their fear of going it alone because of their fears of attack.

Many others have forms of PTSD because of their own traumatic experiences, but are doing their best to move from victim to survivor, like I have done, and get to on with their lives as best they can , living as free from fear as they can.

I try to be the reassuring "It will probably be ok" voice.

Whilst not belittling their fears.

I never set myself up as a self styled arbiter of anything.

That's in your head.

But I happen to be a woman, with actual lived experience of being such .

And oh look !
It would appear that I'm the only one here.

Could that be anything to do with the attitudes of some people on here , I wonder ??

 

[swansonj]

...Interesting how all the supposed free thinkers on here have such delicate sensibilities...

Or could it be that it's possession of basic empathy for other people, possession of a concern as to how other people are affected by our own words and actions and those of society as a whole, that makes some people left-wing to start with?

 

[FishFright]

There is none so blind as those that will not see.

He doesn't care , he thinks he's being clever and leading everyone a merry dance. Sadly I'm beginning to think that he really believes some rapes are more 'acceptable' than others.

 

[Pale Rider]

He doesn't care , he thinks he's being clever and leading everyone a merry dance. Sadly I'm beginning to think that he really believes some rapes are more 'acceptable' than others.

Try, just for once, to post on topic.

Go on, I dare you.

 

[Archie_tect]

If this is 'enhanced Britishness' in the 21st Century, I would prefer to be a worm, or possibly, even French.

 

[newfhouse]

come back to me

No. I won’t respond to you again on this topic. You have once again demonstrated your vile and harmful attitudes and I won’t further assist you getting your jollies.

 

[mudsticks]

Or could it be that it's possession of basic empathy for other people, possession of a concern as to how other people are affected by our own words and actions and those of society as a whole, that makes some people left-wing to start with?

Correlation, or causation ...

Discuss.

Or don't..

Your choice ...

If this is 'enhanced Britishness' in the 21st Century, I would prefer to be a worm, or possibly, even French.

I'm deep down with the earthworms right now.

Curiously they won't respond, either to English, Spanish, or French ??

Should I try Finnish.??

I suspect in truth they're trying to affect an 'otherworldly' aura, about them...

Either that and all invertebrates have had the memo -

"Don't speak to the humans, whatever you do, they are armed and dangerous, and are out to get you "

 

[Archie_tect]

Go on, I dare you.

PR, I appreciate this is wildly off-topic, but are you sure you don't know who threw that brick?