Enhanced Britishness

[lazybloke]

No apology needed, by creepy I meant those who dig up posts I made months ago in the other place.

But given the hundreds of thousands of words posted since, I am also flattered anyone remembers what I've written.

I didn't need to "dig up" anything; it had stuck firmly

No apology needed, by creepy I meant those who dig up posts I made months ago in the other place.

But given the hundreds of thousands of words posted since, I am also flattered anyone remembers what I've written.

I didn't have to "dig up" the quote. It, very unfortunately, is painfully and indelibly seared across my memory as one of the most objectionable posts I've ever seen on CC.

I would not flatter those who belittle rape.

 

[qigong chimp]

It's an ill wind...
One of the best things to come out of the abduction, rape and murder of Sarah Everard - and the dilatory nature of her send off so unlike the usual slotting and potting of sentencing hearings - is that it provides me a springboard clumsily to segue into an anecdote about how I bested my reporter peers, an anecdote which demonstrates both my smugness and magnanimity.
And maybe some other qualities.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Look up the meaning of violation and come back to me.

Clue: It's got nothing to do with violence.

Yes, those rapes being those in which the victim submits to the rape in order to avoid violence.

Let's try an analogy or perhaps an empathy test.

Some big smelly bloke want's you for his sunbeam.

If you submit rather than be beaten to pulp and then painfully raped where the sun don't shine anyway would you regard that as non-violent?

 

[Archie_tect]

To Muddy and BoldonLad,

Please rest assured I am OK with everything... more than OK. It's a fact of life that we all will get old and have something eventually, as sure as eggs is eggs.

My mum has severe memory loss and she can't remember what happened two minutes ago- she knows it is happening but finds it funny though it annoys her some days when she can't remember things, like certain words.. as happened tonight, "Those little black things on stalks... which we worked out were grapes... "Yes! Grapes, could I have some?"... what now? "Yes", but it's nine o'clock.... "Well the shop will have some." ...You want them now?..."What?" .... Grapes?... "Oh yes please I'd love some..."

 

[mudsticks]

To Muddy and BoldonLad,

Please rest assured I am OK with everything... more than OK. It's a fact of life that we all will get old and have something eventually, as sure as eggs is eggs.

My mum has severe memory loss and she can't remember what happened two minutes ago- she knows it is happening but finds it funny though it annoys her some days when she can't remember things, like certain words.. as happened tonight, "Those little black things on stalks... which we worked out were grapes... "Yes! Grapes, could I have some?"... what now? "Yes", but it's nine o'clock.... "Well the shop will have some." ...You want them now?..."What?" .... Grapes?... "Oh yes please I'd love some..."

If you didn't laugh sometimes ---

Your mum sounds like a bit of a giggle.

I often struggle for the names of things, too, esp at work "Can you pass the - the you know - the thingummy wotsit "

Magically , someone will know what I mean..??

Sadly neither of my parents made an age where Alzheimer's or similar were likely to impinge.

Equally or even more sadly I lost relative, of my age to MS , she had over the years developed dementia type side effects too ..

Too brutal

What's funny, and what's not , is of course contextual to a large degree.

But gentle lampooning of awkward health situations that we will all quite likely find ourselves in, or already do, due to ageing.

Is a pretty far remove from being disrespectful about situations in which someone has had violence done to them.


But no point arguing that toss anymore.

If people can't see the harm, then I'm not labouring the point.

 

[Pale Rider]

It's an ill wind...
One of the best things to come out of the abduction, rape and murder of Sarah Everard - and the dilatory nature of her send off so unlike the usual slotting and potting of sentencing hearings - is that it provides me a springboard clumsily to segue into an anecdote about how I bested my reporter peers, an anecdote which demonstrates both my smugness and magnanimity.
And maybe some other qualities.

I can't work out where you get off following me around a forum just to post insults.

There's certainly a sadness about it.

Can't you find some other poor sod to latch onto?

I would not flatter those who belittle rape.

Another falsehood.

And you still haven't explained how a victim who says she submitted to a rape to avoid violence has been the subject of violence.

She doesn't think she's been subjected to violence, but of course you know better.

 

[mudsticks]

I can't work out where you get off following me around a forum just to post insults.

There's certainly a sadness about it.

Can't you find some other poor sod to latch onto?



Another falsehood.

And you still haven't explained how a victim who says she submitted to a rape to avoid violence has been the subject of violence.

She doesn't think she's been subjected to violence, but of course you know better.

It's really quite simple,

The victim submitted to one form of violence , to avoid further additional violence.

She decides in that moment that it's 'better' than violence + violence.

As the first violence is inevitable.

A horrible decision to have to make, but sadly a commonplace one.

If she decides to frame one of the violent acts - the rape as 'non violent' for her own psychological self protection, or for other reasons, that is her choice.

That she made the decision to frame it that way, maybe even to get away from the discussion being had, should not then be seized upon by someone who wants to claim that 'rape is not violence'.


The fact that you're trying to use this alleged dialogue to somehow prove your point, is distasteful, to say the very least.

You say you want things 'explained' to you, but I'm not convinced that greater understanding is genuinely what is being sought here.

It's something else.

Maybe try @Bromptonaut s scenario on for size.?

I can't believe that it really has to be so simplistic a scenario, to get through, and in truth I rather doubt it will, but there we are.

 

[mudsticks]

Just on case anyone needs any further informative reading on a soggy Tuesday .


https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-help/looking-for-information/what-is-sexual-violence/

 

[Deleted member 49]

And you still haven't explained how a victim who says she submitted to a rape to avoid violence has been the subject of violence.

Paley yet again...as someone who describes themselves as a "wordsmith" it's still pretty offensive to say this sort of shite.

 

[BoldonLad]

To Muddy and BoldonLad,

Please rest assured I am OK with everything... more than OK. It's a fact of life that we all will get old and have something eventually, as sure as eggs is eggs.

My mum has severe memory loss and she can't remember what happened two minutes ago- she knows it is happening but finds it funny though it annoys her some days when she can't remember things, like certain words.. as happened tonight, "Those little black things on stalks... which we worked out were grapes... "Yes! Grapes, could I have some?"... what now? "Yes", but it's nine o'clock.... "Well the shop will have some." ...You want them now?..."What?" .... Grapes?... "Oh yes please I'd love some..."

Despite my personal experiences of Dementia etc, I was not offended or upset in any way, I too am a realist, and accept that we are all, probably going to suffer from some illness or other, eventually, and, for definite, we are all going to die, eventually.

However, I do accept that not everyone feels that way.

 

[BoldonLad]

Can't you find some other poor sod to latch onto?

On this, if nothing else, you are providing a public service

 

[icowden]

And you still haven't explained how a victim who says she submitted to a rape to avoid violence has been the subject of violence.

Really? I think @mudsticks summed it up well, but here is my two pennorth.

First you have to define violence:

• Noun: behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.
• Law: the unlawful exercise of physical force or intimidation by the exhibition of such force

So thus, someone who submits to a rape to avoid "violence" as per the definition of the Noun is still the subject of violence as per the definition of the law. Additionally it is possible that the victim hasn't reviewed their language and are intending to mean that they submitted to lesser violence to avoid greater violence. That isn't a normal thought pattern though and most people are not conditioned to speak like that.

I think we can all agree that rape, is a violent act, and that it is a circumstance where the victim is being controlled by someone significantly more powerful than they. Adding broken bones, bruising or being beaten to death just seem like making the situation worse, so submission is a perfectly valid response.

I can't speak for everyone but I have been in a violent confrontation (I was attacked at a party for no other reason than I happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time). Your first instinct (unless you are trained as a Ninja) is not to fight back against a superior force but to do everything you can to minimise the situation, to give those controlling it what they want to minimise injury to yourself. It starts with verbal sparring as you desperately try to evade confrontation and attempt to answer in a way that doesn't give the aggressor an excuse. Of course most of the time it doesn't *matter* what you say, they are going to find a reason to attack you.

 

[mudsticks]

On this, if nothing else, you are providing a public service

Playing along with the supposed 'victimhood'
??

Should we just ignore deeply offensive stuff .??
And probs the best policy in truth .

It is one approach , i grant you, but then it seems to spread.
It has to large parts of the rest of the internet.


But it seems to depend on who is dishing it out, as to what you're prepared to support in terms of 'free speech' .

Friendly joking about memory loss, with someone who has clearly shown they don't mind is supposedly questionable.

Doubling down on the question of whether or not rape is violence..??

That's fine, and the proposer of such a theory takes up the mantle of 'beleagured' if they're pulled up on it right ??


Oh well , that's the nature of things

You see, if we put a 'winky' afterwards it makes it all ok, because we're all just lads joking together .

 

[BoldonLad]

Playing along with the supposed 'victimhood'
??

Should we just ignore deeply offensive stuff .??
And probs the best policy in truth .

It is one approach , i grant you, but then it seems to spread.
It has to large parts of the rest of the internet.


But it seems to depend on who is dishing it out, as to what you're prepared to support in terms of 'free speech' .

Friendly joking about memory loss, with someone who has clearly shown they don't mind is supposedly questionable.

Doubling down on the question of whether or not rape is violence..??

That's fine, and the proposer of such a theory takes up the mantle of 'beleagured' if they're pulled up on it right ??


Oh well , that's the nature of things

You see, if we put a 'winky' afterwards it makes it all ok, because we're all just lads joking together .

While I quoted Paley's post, I carefully removed all reference to the violence/rape discussion, and, I used the words "on this if nothing else", (clue, I don't agree with him), so, why do you. assume, I support or agree with his opinion on the rape/violence discussion?

IMHO, it is possible to disagree with someone without being offensive. Perhaps, I am too delicate for this "zone"?

Sorry I had the temerity to make a small joke, clearly, I am not licensed to joke, how do I join?

 

[Pale Rider]

If she decides to frame one of the violent acts - the rape as 'non violent' for her own psychological self protection, or for other reasons, that is her choice.

That's awfully generous of you to give her that permission.

Noun: behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something

Using this simple definition, some rapes do not qualify as violent.

Unless you believe the act of intercourse itself is violent.

Have a read of this topical case involving a copper.

There was text traffic between the pair of them the next morning in which she inquired if they had had sex.

That they had was later proved by the birth of a child, found to be his.

She now alleges rape, which she can do because all the prosecution has to prove is absence of consent.

Makes sense, intercourse without consent ought to be rape, but it's another case where it's hard to see where the common definition of violence occurred.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-58796000

Sorry I had the temerity to make a small joke, clearly, I am not licensed to joke, how do I join?

NACA has been the home of the po-faced long before you joined.