EU & Brexit Bunker

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briantrumpet

briantrumpet

Über Member
I just haven't worked out quite how to celebrate Dan Hannan Day today... fireworks, obviously, for starters...

...though on second thoughts, would they frighten the unicorns?
 

icowden

Shaman
I'm talking about their self confessed pro-EU bias. Not sure what you're talking about though.

The report was commissioned jointly by two organisations. As you have pointed out, one of those organisations has a self-confessed pro-EU bias.

The other appears to be entirely independent and have no bias.

The reason for joint commissioning a report is usually so that people don't immediately go "well of course it will support their view, they commissioned it".

Your determination to ignore that there are two commissioners of the report is worthy of a prize.
 
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briantrumpet

briantrumpet

Über Member
I see I was already celebrating nine years ago today...

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briantrumpet

briantrumpet

Über Member
It might have been a mistake looking back at Facebook Memories from nine years ago today. Seems that I wasn't entirely happy.

Maybe the date needs to be renamed "We Told You So" Day.
 
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It might have been a mistake looking back at Facebook Memories from nine years ago today. Seems that I wasn't entirely happy.

Maybe the date needs to be renamed "We Told You So" Day.
Ok, challenge: Proof the EU is so much better, in particular on added taxed, limiting freedoms, cost of living, etc. Keep in mind that any research you quote has to be triple checked as since has come the light that the EU pays lobbies to counter lobbies being bought in by big companies, because why stop the idea of corruption if you can just make it more corrupt right?

And no weak ''but the uk this or that, it's about the EU remember''
 

Stevo 666

Senior Member
The report was commissioned jointly by two organisations. As you have pointed out, one of those organisations has a self-confessed pro-EU bias.

The other appears to be entirely independent and have no bias.

The reason for joint commissioning a report is usually so that people don't immediately go "well of course it will support their view, they commissioned it".

Your determination to ignore that there are two commissioners of the report is worthy of a prize.

Your determination to ignore what is on that website about its pro EU bias is amusing. As is your inability to address my point.
 

Pblakeney

Well-Known Member
And I think I've managed to keep debates civil, even if at times it's been somewhat repetitive. Though maybe I'll be excused a little given it's been nine years of #unicornshit.

My post was aimed at people on FB (obs), not cycling forums. I can't be bothered to check but I suspect it was in vain. 😉
 

icowden

Shaman
Your determination to ignore what is on that website about its pro EU bias is amusing. As is your inability to address my point.
I'm starting to worry about your reading comprehension.

I've stated multiple times that I am aware of the potentially pro EU bias of the Federal Trust. That doesn't invalidate the research as the report was also commissioned by the Constitution Society.
I don't have any smaller words with which to explain this.

The Constitution Society also states that:
This publication presents the personal views of the author and not those of The Constitution Society, which publishes it as a contribution to debate on this important subject.

The author is John Springford.
John Springford is an associate fellow at the Centre for European Reform in London, having previously been deputy director. He works on the economic impact of Brexit for the CER, having put together the 'doppelgänger' estimates of the cost of Brexit.

John has contributed opinion pieces to various newspapers, including the Financial Times, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and The Guardian. He regularly commentates on economic and political issues for the broadcast media. He has acted as a specialist advisor to the House of Commons Treasury committee, and has given evidence to committees in both houses of parliament in the UK.

In the spirit of full disclosure, you could also argue that John Springford works for the Centre for European Reform which is pro-European. His conclusions are hardly startling however:

Putting all of the evidence together, then, we can conclude that the broad consensus among economists on Brexit was broadly correct. GDP, trade flows and investment have all been curtailed by barriers to trade with the EU. The EU’s single market does raise trade substantially more than free trade agreements, and the UK’s distance from other markets means that trade deals with non-EU countries cannot make up for the losses. The gains from regulatory autonomy are hard to quantify, and must be set against the trade losses stemming from divergence from EU rules – and the fact that even if the UK remains aligned with EU standards and rules, British products are still subject to bureaucracy at the border unless the EU agrees to reduce checks. The end of free movement has been less costly than predicted, because the government has chosen to remain open to immigration, but the forecast losses were significantly smaller than the impact of barriers to trade in any case. Looking ahead, it is important to remember that the costs of Brexit are likely to be permanent, with the economy continuing to be 4 per cent smaller into the future (if we take the OBR’s assumption). Given the fact that FTAs will not make up for Brexit, and the EU also signs trade deals, that means that future British governments can only significantly offset those losses, or eliminate them, through reintegration with the European economy. Whether they choose to do so is up to British politicians and voters and the member-states of the EU, who will determine what the price of reintegration will be.

His conclusions are that Brexit is a pile of shoot. This is the broad consensus amongst economists. It will continue to be shoot.

Given that you seem to strongly disagree with his conclusions perhaps you could share with us the detailed research paper which shows that we are benefitting from Brexit and are now in the sunlit uplands?

We have been crying out for people to share Brexit benefits but no one has been able to find one.
 
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Beebo

Guru
The Daniel Hannon essay on his post brexit predictions for 24th June 2025 are something else.

It’s just fairytales, with seemingly no understanding of how the world works.
 
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briantrumpet

briantrumpet

Über Member
The Daniel Hannon essay on his post brexit predictions for 24th June 2025 are something else.

It’s just fairytales, with seemingly no understanding of how the world works.

If 'fairytales' is a synonym for 'utter tripe', I'll agree. I think the charitable explanation is that he was and is nuts, the less charitable one that he knew he was telling porkies. I still wonder if his bald statement that "No one is talking about leaving the Single Market and Customs Union" was revealingly truthful: they knew what the plan was, but decided not to talk about it because they suspected the voters wouldn't vote for a hard Brexit.
 
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