EU & Brexit Bunker

[Psamathe]

My increasing worry about Burnham is he's continually fence sitting, keeps "we need a discussion about ..." but never making a case, never saying why, just throwing an idea out there without arguing why something is important, no highlighting benefits. No stands, just ideas for long term and everything behind "We'll need a fresh mandate" (even when current manifesto they were elected on gives them a mandate for some things he's already kicked into the long grass).

 

[Pblakeney]

My increasing worry about Burnham is he's continually fence sitting, keeps "we need a discussion about ..." but never making a case, never saying why, just throwing an idea out there without arguing why something is important, no highlighting benefits. No stands, just ideas for long term and everything behind "We'll need a fresh mandate" (even when current manifesto they were elected on gives them a mandate for some things he's already kicked into the long grass).

Your reliance on manifestos and mandates is quite amusing.
Yes, in an ideal world but nobody of any party actually sticks to them when the going gets tough. “Well, X, Y, and Z happened so….”

 

[Psamathe]

Your reliance on manifestos and mandates is quite amusing.

Manifestos are important
eg they constrain the levels of scrutiny the House of Lords can exercise over a Parlimentary bill (Salisbury-Addison Convention). Something included in the Government's Party Election mainfesto constrains the House of Lords. And we now have controversial laws on our statutes because of this Convention in relation to Manifesto pledges.

eg. Basic honesty. eg If I say "Give me £30 and I'll mow your lawn", you give me £30 and I decide "Actually I've changed my mins and I won't and you're not getting your £30 back" So Election Manifesto "Give us your vote and we'll boskald the Upsloads", you give them your vote (because having you regard boskald the Upsloads as more important than having the tax cut offered by another Party, then having taken your vote they just "We've changed our mind and won't be boskald the Upsload ... Basic honesty and honouring promises. If you can't trust a Political Party be honest and honour committments then they don't deserve to be elected.

eg Some lawyers regard the mandate from a Party Manifesto commitments as being contributory evidence when laws are challenged in the Courts.

eg Using "We need a mandate to ..." when the manifesto they were elected on already gives them the needed mandate is just finding untrue excuses for not doing something promised.

 

[Pblakeney]

Manifestos are important
eg they constrain the levels of scrutiny the House of Lords can exercise over a Parlimentary bill (Salisbury-Addison Convention). Something included in the Government's Party Election mainfesto constrains the House of Lords. And we now have controversial laws on our statutes because of this Convention in relation to Manifesto pledges.

eg. Basic honesty. eg If I say "Give me £30 and I'll mow your lawn", you give me £30 and I decide "Actually I've changed my mins and I won't and you're not getting your £30 back" So Election Manifesto "Give us your vote and we'll boskald the Upsloads", you give them your vote (because having you regard boskald the Upsloads as more important than having the tax cut offered by another Party, then having taken your vote they just "We've changed our mind and won't be boskald the Upsload ... Basic honesty and honouring promises. If you can't trust a Political Party be honest and honour committments then they don't deserve to be elected.

eg Some lawyers regard the mandate from a Party Manifesto commitments as being contributory evidence when laws are challenged in the Courts.

eg Using "We need a mandate to ..." when the manifesto they were elected on already gives them the needed mandate is just finding untrue excuses for not doing something promised.

As I said, amusing.

 

[briantrumpet]

Ah bendy bananas have been debunked, so the Telegraph needs another reason to keep the drawbridge up...

 

[Psamathe]

Ah bendy bananas have been debunked, so the Telegraph needs another reason to keep the drawbridge up...

View attachment 18105

I believe more products are banned eg some tomatoes (genetically engineered varieties). What I haven't seen yet is if we are to incorporate the EU regulatory requirements into our own laws or if it's just that we can only export product complying with EU regulations.

 

[Pblakeney]

Ah bendy bananas have been debunked, so the Telegraph needs another reason to keep the drawbridge up...

View attachment 18105

Good!
Disgusting things anyway. Other opinions are available.

 

[icowden]

Good!
Disgusting things anyway. Other opinions are available.

Yep. Bloody brilliant IMHO. There are an awful lot of "could" and "maybe" statements in there. Currently yes, the plan is to restrict words like chicken and bacon to meat products, however the legislation has not been passed and flavourings may yet be exempt from the rules.

It's not even clear how they would be implemented or workable. For example my daughter eats "This (tm) isn't caramelised onion pork sausages". Technically pork is a protected word for meat. However the packaging specifically states that the product is not pork sausages.

La Vie Plant Based Smoked Bacon might have to become La Vie Plant Based Smoked Bacon flavour strips.

You'd have thought Europe had better things to do. In the old days of course, we would have had a say in the legislation.

 

[briantrumpet]

Yep. Bloody brilliant IMHO. There are an awful lot of "could" and "maybe" statements in there. Currently yes, the plan is to restrict words like chicken and bacon to meat products, however the legislation has not been passed and flavourings may yet be exempt from the rules.

It's not even clear how they would be implemented or workable. For example my daughter eats "This (tm) isn't caramelised onion pork sausages". Technically pork is a protected word for meat. However the packaging specifically states that the product is not pork sausages.

La Vie Plant Based Smoked Bacon might have to become La Vie Plant Based Smoked Bacon flavour strips.

You'd have thought Europe had better things to do. In the old days of course, we would have had a say in the legislation.

It goes along with not being able to label 'oat milk' or 'soya milk' as such any more in the EU. I guess it takes their minds off Belgium blocking helping Ukraine with frozen Russian assets.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Yep. Bloody brilliant IMHO. There are an awful lot of "could" and "maybe" statements in there. Currently yes, the plan is to restrict words like chicken and bacon to meat products, however the legislation has not been passed and flavourings may yet be exempt from the rules.

It's not even clear how they would be implemented or workable. For example my daughter eats "This (tm) isn't caramelised onion pork sausages". Technically pork is a protected word for meat. However the packaging specifically states that the product is not pork sausages.

La Vie Plant Based Smoked Bacon might have to become La Vie Plant Based Smoked Bacon flavour strips.

You'd have thought Europe had better things to do. In the old days of course, we would have had a say in the legislation.

I still mourn for Hedgehog crisps. At least there are more hedgehogs running around since they stopped selling them.

 

[Psamathe]

It goes along with not being able to label 'oat milk' or 'soya milk' as such any more in the EU. I guess it takes their minds off Belgium blocking helping Ukraine with frozen Russian assets.

I thought the name issues where non-dairy were stopped from being called "milk" was a UK courts decision (latest being within the last few years).

 

[briantrumpet]

I thought the name issues where non-dairy were stopped from being called "milk" was a UK courts decision (latest being within the last few years).

Can confirm about supermarket labelling in France.

 

[Psamathe]

Can confirm about supermarket labelling in France.

View attachment 18106

But possible that UK can have its own rules and regulations that just happen to be similar to those in the EU?
I've no idea about the history of the UK laws but certainly there have been UK court cases about it in the last few years (long time since Brexit).

 

[briantrumpet]

But possible that UK can have its own rules and regulations that just happen to be similar to those in the EU?
I've no idea about the history of the UK laws but certainly there have been UK court cases about it in the last few years (long time since Brexit).

I had a feeling the two would be related. tl;dr "Bloody EU!"

 

[Pross]

I thought the name issues where non-dairy were stopped from being called "milk" was a UK courts decision (latest being within the last few years).

Even if it’s not a UK rule it is applied to the stuff we get. That’s the stupid thing with this ‘taking back control’, companies aren’t going to make separate products for a UK market so we get EU rules effectively enforced despite having left. It’s almost like sovereignty is some vague concept in an age of globalisation.