First Past The Post - A broken system? What are the alternatives? What would work better for the UK?

[newfhouse]

Apparently, their parliament also has approximately a fifth of it's seats held by an anti-immigrant, pro-Nazi party. Not desirable.

Ours is 55% held by Tories with similar views. Not desirable.

 

[BoldonLad]

Ours is 55% held by Tories with similar views. Not desirable.

You could be right, so, neither system works?

 

[Pale Rider]

You could be right, so, neither system works?

The only system Newie wants is one that produces a result he likes.

Fairness has got nothing to do with it.

 

[newfhouse]

You could be right, so, neither system works?

I’d argue that a system that better reflects the full range of public opinion will reduce the chances of an extremist or criminal government - like the one we are enduring - being able to do as it pleases with less than half of the vote.

The only system Newie wants is one that produces a result he likes.

I challenge you to back that up with links to statements that I’ve actually made. The usual fiver to Refugee Action if you fail. Deal?

Fairness has got nothing to do with it.

How is the current (mostly binary) system fair?

 

[Pale Rider]

I’d argue that a system that better reflects the full range of public opinion will reduce the chances of an extremist or criminal government - like the one we are enduring - being able to do as it pleases with less than half of the vote.


I challenge you to back that up with links to statements that I’ve actually made. The usual fiver to Refugee Action if you fail. Deal?


How is the current (mostly binary) system fair?

You cannot seriously believe this government is extremist.

I know a few ill-informed clowns on here say it is, but that's not the same thing.

All those in opposition, and their supporters, moan about fptp, until such time as it gets them elected when they fall strangely silent.

I'm not sure you could describe the current system as fair, but it does a good job of squaring a difficult circle - the combination of local and national representation.

While I would never vote Labour, it doesn't bother me that much who gets in provided I get a decent and reasonably hardworking MP.

The problem around here has been Labour MPs who were sitting on huge majorities, became lazy and uninterested in doing the job.

That changed a little in the last election, although the eastern end of the red wall remained unbreached, if a little damaged.

Hopefully that will have concentrated the minds of the Labour members who now realise re-election is not a shoo-in.

A big part of the overall picture is the majority of voters are not the least bit interested in the MPs' role of local representation, they merely want to know who 'gets in' nationally.

Which is fine, their choice, but tinkering with the voting system won't change any attitudes.

 

[newfhouse]

You cannot seriously believe this government is extremist.

Yup. Extremist and criminal.

 

[Pale Rider]

Yup. Extremist and criminal.

I hope you never have to live under a genuinely extremist government because I suspect it would drive you over the edge.

Thankfully, the chances of that are slim, not least because we have a long tradition of electing governments from a very limited range of left of centre to right of centre.

 

[newfhouse]

I hope you never have to live under a genuinely extremist government because I suspect it would drive you over the edge.

Saying that it’s worse in some random dictatorship over there isn’t much of a defence.

Thankfully, the chances of that are slim, not least because we have a long tradition of electing governments from a very limited range of left of centre to right of centre.

That used to be the case but the last decade has changed that. There’s barely even a pretence now that they are governing for the benefit of ordinary folk rather than further enriching the already fantastically wealthy.

I’m not surprised that you have avoided the ‘criminal’ part of my characterisation.

 

[Pale Rider]

Saying that it’s worse in some random dictatorship over there isn’t much of a defence.

It's not meant to be a defence of anything, it merely illustrates some hard of thinking people bandy around terms such as extremist, when our government is nothing of the sort.

Saying that it’s worse in some random dictatorship over there isn’t much of a defence.


That used to be the case but the last decade has changed that. There’s barely even a pretence now that they are governing for the benefit of ordinary folk rather than further enriching the already fantastically wealthy.

I’m not surprised that you have avoided the ‘criminal’ part of my characterisation.

As I always say, the electorate will have their chance to pass judgment.

You won't get any tears from me if the Tories get booted out - they didn't shed any for me when I was sick.

In any case, my Tory vote is worthless in what is still a safe Labour seat.

 

[The Crofted Crest]

It's not meant to be a defence of anything, it merely illustrates some hard of thinking people bandy around terms such as extremist, when our government is nothing of the sort.



As I always say, the electorate will have their chance to pass judgment.

You won't get any tears from me if the Tories get booted out - they didn't shed any for me when I was sick.

In any case, my Tory vote is worthless in what is still a safe Labour seat.

Rabitry

 

[newfhouse]

our government is nothing of the sort.

We’ll just have to disagree on the definition.

As I always say, the electorate will have their chance to pass judgment.

But not in a way that truly reflects the range of opinions of the electorate. Again, no party should gain an overwhelming majority from a minority of votes. I say this about the currently predicted Labour landslide just as strongly as about the despicable Tory criminals.

 

[Bromptonaut]

It's not meant to be a defence of anything, it merely illustrates some hard of thinking people bandy around terms such as extremist, when our government is nothing of the sort.

By comparison with its predecessors the current government is hardly the epitome of moderation but people like Braverman, Badenoch, Coffey etc are well to the right of people who have held Great Offices in my lifetime, including under Thatcher.

The other issue though is the lack of competent people. I'd rate Hunt, Gove and possibly the PM as folks who can actually get things done but not many others.

 

[BoldonLad]

By comparison with its predecessors the current government is hardly the epitome of moderation but people like Braverman, Badenoch, Coffey etc are well to the right of people who have held Great Offices in my lifetime, including under Thatcher.

The other issue though is the lack of competent people. I'd rate Hunt, Gove and possibly the PM as folks who can actually get things done but not many others.

Definitely!

 

[Fab Foodie]

By comparison with its predecessors the current government is hardly the epitome of moderation but people like Braverman, Badenoch, Coffey etc are well to the right of people who have held Great Offices in my lifetime, including under Thatcher.

The other issue though is the lack of competent people. I'd rate Hunt, Gove and possibly the PM as folks who can actually get things done but not many others.

The other side of this coin is choosing what you CAN actually get done and executing.
Small boats is a very stupid hill to die-on. Levelling-up, building houses, environmental progress are ready deliverables - but not if your reason for doing them is purely to win votes at the next election and to please your Big-Co backers.
None of it is rocket science....

 

[Tanis8472]

It's not meant to be a defence of anything, it merely illustrates some hard of thinking people bandy around terms such as extremist, when our government is nothing of the sort.



As I always say, the electorate will have their chance to pass judgment.

You won't get any tears from me if the Tories get booted out - they didn't shed any for me when I was sick.

In any case, my Tory vote is worthless in what is still a safe Labour seat.

Oh good, it cancels out my wasted vote 👍