Free speech

[Rusty Nails]

I believe that Ian Dunt (as seen on another thread) was onto something when he wrote:

"I won't argue with anyone. I am zen. I am the spirit that has transcended the digital flesh.

My reason for this is simple. If I argued, it would achieve nothing. No-one has ever been convinced by an argument online. No-one has ever emerged with a better reputation for having argued online, even if they won. The whole thing is an utter waste of time...

the truth was, I was becoming cruel, or there was at least a possibility of cruelty developing in me. Each instance involved a subtraction from the parts of myself I wanted to encourage - connection, human empathy, understanding."

Unlike you or Ian Dunt, I am not a saint and have no problem at all in arguing. My version of arguing consists of giving my point of view and. If necessary, criticising the POV of others. I have absolutely no interest in or intention at all of changing anyone's POV and do not see it as trying to win. My version of arguing is also not averse to taking the piss out of someone, or too concerned about having the same done to me. I do not set out to offend, but do not worry if I do, nor am I offended by the bollox that others post.

This is not the Oxford Debating Society, just a bunch of random people, some of whom ride bikes, talking their own version of shite....including you.

 

[Ian H]

"I won't argue with anyone. I am zen. I am the spirit that has transcended the digital flesh.

My reason for this is simple. If I argued, it would achieve nothing. No-one has ever been convinced by an argument online. No-one has ever emerged with a better reputation for having argued online, even if they won. The whole thing is an utter waste of time...

the truth was, I was becoming cruel, or there was at least a possibility of cruelty developing in me. Each instance involved a subtraction from the parts of myself I wanted to encourage - connection, human empathy, understanding."

Unlike you or Ian Dunt, I am not a saint and have no problem at all in arguing. My version of arguing consists of giving my point of view and. If necessary, criticising the POV of others. I have absolutely no interest in or intention at all of changing anyone's POV and do not see it as trying to win. My version of arguing is also not averse to taking the piss out of someone, or too concerned about having the same done to me. I do not set out to offend, but do not worry if I do, nor am I offended by the bollox that others post.

This is not the Oxford Debating Society, just a bunch of random people, some of whom ride bikes, talking their own version of shite....including you.

In the past I have had many abstruse, fascinating, alcohol-fuelled discussions in Cardiff. If only I could remember what they were about. The Wednesday Nights were legendary.

 

[Rusty Nails]

In the past I have had many abstruse, fascinating, alcohol-fuelled discussions in Cardiff. If only I could remember what they were about. The Wednesday Nights were legendary.

I've cut down on the booze a lot in recent years and I must admit the pub discussions are a lot less fun.

 

[Ianonabike]

"I won't argue with anyone. I am zen. I am the spirit that has transcended the digital flesh.

My reason for this is simple. If I argued, it would achieve nothing. No-one has ever been convinced by an argument online. No-one has ever emerged with a better reputation for having argued online, even if they won. The whole thing is an utter waste of time...

the truth was, I was becoming cruel, or there was at least a possibility of cruelty developing in me. Each instance involved a subtraction from the parts of myself I wanted to encourage - connection, human empathy, understanding."

Unlike you or Ian Dunt, I am not a saint and have no problem at all in arguing. My version of arguing consists of giving my point of view and. If necessary, criticising the POV of others. I have absolutely no interest in or intention at all of changing anyone's POV and do not see it as trying to win. My version of arguing is also not averse to taking the piss out of someone, or too concerned about having the same done to me. I do not set out to offend, but do not worry if I do, nor am I offended by the bollox that others post.

This is not the Oxford Debating Society, just a bunch of random people, some of whom ride bikes, talking their own version of shite....including you.

I never claimed to be a saint, I'm just not here for your particular version of fight club. Have fun.

 

[Rusty Nails]

I never claimed to be a saint, I'm just not here for your particular version of fight club. Have fun.

I will. You ought to try it.

 

[Ianonabike]

This was fun


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-dMa3rIcjY

 

[icowden]

My point is that on BR some people were actively enjoying the fact that Farage was being debanked by Coutts.

Any company is entitled to refuse the custom of a customer. Firstly, Farage did not have the necessary funds to maintain an account at Coutts. Secondly it is not a requirement that a company take your custom. Coutts has a reputation to maintain and did not want the custom of a "disingenuous grifter who at best is xenophobic and pandering to racists". To bank with Coutts one should keep ones racism and xenophobia entirely between friends and family. It is uncouth to air it in public.

It's not a free speech issue as such but it's definitely a freedom issue which I see as being under the same umbrella. Ditto the Canadian Truckers who I don't remember getting a lot of love over there.

Weirdly, spearheading an incredibly stupid and dangerous attack on public health by wanting to travel into a country with no public health programme and being run by a moron who suggested injecting yourself with bleach was seen as somehow undesirable.

The Graham Linehan cancellation is definitely a freedom of speech issue

I sort of agree with you on this one. I say sort of, because Linehan has repeatedly gone far too far with his personal attacks. It is possible to take a different view re trans without being cancelled. See JK Rowling and James Dreyfuss for details.

 

[icowden]

This was fun

Not really. A significant part of it was based on a false premise.

 

[Ianonabike]

Au contraire. Mr Potato Heads are always fun. But do continue with your false premise theory, I might even agree with you. We'll see!

 

[icowden]

Au contraire. Mr Potato Heads are always fun. But do continue with your false premise theory.

That Kirk wasn't saying all black women are thick but only Michelle Obama et al, is somehow less racist. Michelle Obama and Barack Obama have been vocal about affirmative action and made clear that it was about levelling the playing field, not about letting unqualified people take the place of qualified people. Kirk was openly racist.

 

[Rusty Nails]

That Kirk wasn't saying all black women are thick but only Michelle Obama et al, is somehow less racist. Michelle Obama and Barack Obama have been vocal about affirmative action and made clear that it was about levelling the playing field, not about letting unqualified people take the place of qualified people. Kirk was openly racist.

As someone who used to be responsible for recruitment in a large organisation I can categorically say that getting the best person (whatever that is) into a job is not always the prime objective. In practice it is about getting the best balance of skills, abilities and personalities into the organisation to help the organisation improve.

It is relatively simple for manual or technical jobs where motor skills can be measured but a lot less simple for jobs where 'soft' skills are involved and the organisation wants to develop the organisation and the range of viewpoints, abilities and attitudes it has in it.

 

[Ianonabike]

That Kirk wasn't saying all black women are thick but only Michelle Obama et al, is somehow less racist. Michelle Obama and Barack Obama have been vocal about affirmative action and made clear that it was about levelling the playing field, not about letting unqualified people take the place of qualified people. Kirk was openly racist.

That reads more like an appeal to authority than a solid argument. We'll have to agree to disagree that Kirk was racist. I've posted this before, but it's worth another airing, if only to hear the opinion of a black American (who is also gay; germane because apparently Kirk's bigotry knew no bounds). There's an index if you go to YouTube.


View: https://youtu.be/N14ywRyTWVI

Also this again, because it gives the most context to one of his controversial statements.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4y4d9QV45E&t=178s


View: https://youtu.be/V6rhpiFGEVE

We're all going to have our opinions about whether or not he was racist. It's beside the point. His murder was horrific and requires no asterisk.

 

[Xipe Totec]

Are you a radio or TV presenter?

You do get the impression GB News will give a job to any shrieking hard-right headcase.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Farage and Coutts. I thought is was funny as he wants to be seen as one of the common people but most definitely doesn't want to be one of the common people.
Canadian truckers. I wasn't aware. Probably because I had my own issues to deal with at the time.
Graham Lineham. May have crossed the line from free speech to legal harassment. I actively avoid trans issues.

The point about Trump is that he doesn't just pick on individuals, he is cancelling everyone (individuals and institutions) he doesn't like or who raise the flaws in his plans. He is blatantly breaching the constitution, which he is sworn to uphold.

That pretty much covers it.

If Linehan had just posted arguments and opinion around trans issues he'd have looked either a chump or a reasonable commentator depending on where one stands on the subject.

He went way beyond and is absolutely the author of his own misfortune.

 

[AndyRM]

That pretty much covers it.

If Linehan had just posted arguments and opinion around trans issues he'd have looked either a chump or a reasonable commentator depending on where one stands on the subject.

He went way beyond and is absolutely the author of his own misfortune.

Absolutely this. His behaviour has been ridiculous, which for me makes his "My life is ruined because of a a cruel vendetta against me" schtick both baffling and pathetic. Grudgingly I have to admit that it's impressive he's managed to keep some people on side