Gender again. Sorry!

[winjim]

I didn't start nor resurrect the thread. In fact I didn't start any of the other transgender related threads. Threads wander a fair bit, not just this thread. I have been happy to put this thread back to sleep several times because it really has covered everything - hence no need to start another thread. I don't think it's unreasonable to answer points when people quote or @ me though.

You do realise that nearly ¼ of the posts in this thread have been made by you?

 

[classic33]

Not a single man on this thread has offered a solution that involves anything other than women having to give up something. Including you. Transmen using men's single sex spaces is a different issue - they are unlikely to be a safeguarding issue to men. But if men wish to exclude them, that's up to men. They should have every right to do so.

I'd rather think that you were trying to be kind and inclusive than think it's just that you don't give a toss about women.

Have you ever been on the receiving end of a "joke" about how parts of your body looks, compared to how they feel it should look, from as it turned out a trans man*. The standard answer from me, "it's what cancer left me with", got an immediate answer/response of "sorry to hear that, didn't realise and I shouldn't have said it".

And if we wished to exclude them, we'd have people, like yourself, telling us we were overstepping an unseen line and we weren't thinking about the effect of what we were saying.

As for no safeguarding problems with women in men only spaces, female staff entering with a mobile phone f'instance, it's not just men, but boys as well.
Are you happy that your male kid(s) might be caught on camera in a changing area?

*I found that bit out in the cafe where he insisted we go, as he was buying to say sorry for what he'd said.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I knew you'd say exactly this. It's so utterly bone-headed, so you. Anybody with a functioning brain can see why what I said, and what you said I said are wildly different. Are you so terminally dim that I need to explain why?

All you have brought to this thread, and this forum, is condescension and abuse. It's pretty much beyond you to go 2 or 3 posts without falling back on it.

 

[multitool]

All you have brought to this thread, and this forum, is condescension and abuse. It's pretty much beyond you to go 2 or 3 posts without falling back on it.

That's a little harsh. People who debate honestly get the respect they deserve. Your insistence on continuing with dishonest, bad faith tactics means you get what you deserve. Soz.

 

[AuroraSaab]

You do realise that nearly ¼ of the posts in this thread have been made by you?

I'll take your word for it. Perhaps it's because I'm happy to stay and fight my corner. You've posted stuff like 'Sometimes I would put transwomen in the group of Men, sometimes in the group of Women'. Then you decline to explain what that even means and only come back to moan.

I'm more than happy to let this thread die a death.

 

[AuroraSaab]

That's a little harsh. People who debate honestly get the respect they deserve. Your insistence on continuing with dishonest, bad faith tactics means you get what you deserve. Soz.

I can imagine you think that post reflects badly on me not on you.

'You get what you deserve'. Nice.

 

[multitool]

There are 5 people who have made the same comments about you. What do you think you deserve?

 

[AuroraSaab]

You seem determined to turn this thread into one of ongoing personal abuse.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I think, after 111 pages and 1660 posts or thereabouts, anybody whose mind wasn't made up before is not going to change now.....

 

[multitool]

You seem determined to turn this thread into one of ongoing personal abuse.

"Shilling for rapists"

 

[AuroraSaab]

I will admit that was perhaps a bit hyperbolic. I think you're still top of the league abuse wise though, even if we don't count what you've dished out to other members. You just can't help yourself; it's your fall back position.

 

[multitool]

Saying that somebody is pro-rapist
is "perhaps a bit hyperbolic".

No, Aurora. It's a disgraceful remark, but it is so you.

And you wonder why people have walked away from this thread.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I didn't say you were pro-rapist. I said you were advocating on their behalf re being in the prison of their choice.

I would think the energy you've brought to the thread has had much the same effect. I'll leave you to it now, mate. Neither of us are doing anything here other than scraping the bottom of an already well-worn barrel.

 

[Unkraut]

Hahaha hahaha

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64548844

I note in the article the desire to ban conversion therapy. Is anybody actually offering this, I thought it went out with the ark.

Isn't it incoherent again? Conversion is a synonym for transition. They want to ban any conversion of homosexuals because this is orientation is fixed, yet allow it for transgender because sexuality is fluid. If someone wants to change from homosexuality or wants to detransition, shouldn't they be allowed to get the help they need if they request it? (I would hope the latter is not included in any ban.)

A religious person wrote the following:

I noticed some students parroting the line that biological sex is “assigned” at birth by doctors and parents rather than identified or recognized. “Wait a second”, I said. “Is sexual orientation innate, something we are born with?” My students nodded readily. This is well-established dogma. “And you’re also saying that biological sex is a construct, a category arbitrarily ‘assigned’ at birth?” More vigorous nods. “How is that possible? Aren’t those claims contradictory? How is possible to have an innate attraction to something that is merely a social construct?” Aha. In that millisecond, I saw a brief glimmer of light cut through the postmodern haze. Even if they quickly turned away, they had at least recognised the contradiction.

The blogger quoting this added This can all feel rather depressing. It is depressing. Yet I also see light at the end of the tunnel, the fog beginning to disperse. The current gender construct is a house of cards. It has no solid foundation. It is a fairy castle in the air, built on oxymorons and the theorizing of the paedophile Michel Foucault. It cannot stand. At some point the wind will shift and it will fall.

https://thinktheology.co.uk/blog/article/the_basis_is_biology

Do you see the inconstistency?

 

[Rusty Nails]

I think, after 111 pages and 1660 posts or thereabouts, anybody whose mind wasn't made up before is not going to change now.....

Nor, clearly, is anyone who's mind  was made up.