Gender again. Sorry!

[Webbo2]

View: https://x.com/MrMennoTweets/status/1915510236955500545?t=rPWLwMCR1xrUs_P2TH9Aow&s=19



View: https://x.com/LouiseDistras/status/1777671361923527040?t=NOpsrTsWtc9LT7CyIi50cA&s=19



View: https://x.com/JebraFaushay/status/1916255313591996834?t=92vOc428tOLvt2TzZKzUzw&s=19


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Which one is you.

 

[CXRAndy]

Which one is you.

My photo was taken down by moderators

 

[Psamathe]

You are saying most men can pass as women. I don't believe they do.

I didn't say that atall. I said

Most trans women will be doing their best to look like women (eg electrolysis) and most won't be bearded.

There is a very significant difference between "most men" and "most trans women".

Impossible to sensibly discuss issues with people who can't even read what was written. Such straw man speaks volumes.

Ian

 

[AuroraSaab]

What does 'doing their best to look like women' have to do with it? You seem to be saying that because some men make an effort that should count for something in terms of having access to women's single sex spaces. Why on earth should it?

What speaks volumes about your attitude to women is that you think 'woman' is a costume that any man can adopt and somehow this makes him different from other men, and these efforts should be counted in his favour when he seeks access to women's spaces. Why?

Pretty men aren't women. Men who have made an effort with grooming aren't women. Men who dress in stereotypically female clothing aren't women.

The requirement for access to women's spaces is being female, not trying hard to look female. It's insulting to women that you think it is.

 

[AuroraSaab]

So most trans women using women's toilets won't be noticed whereas a trans man using women's toilets will probably be noticed and "what's a man doing in our toilets ...".

You did say most transwomen wouldn't be noticed, which suggests you think these men pass as women. I disagree.

Now do rape crisis centres, prisons, domestic violence refuges, sports, lesbian groups, hospital wards, disabled women who want same sex carers, intimate searches by police officers ...... explain to me again why men who have 'made an effort to look like women' (whatever that even means) should have access to those single sex women's spaces and services.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Doesn't explain why transwomen have a higher rate of sexual offending than other men.


And? Sincerity doesn't change your sex. These men remain men. We don't have single sex spaces based on sincerity. We have them based on sex, because we all know that sex is the relevant factor.



You're setting the bar at what women should tolerate at assault or sexual offending then. Privacy, dignity, feeling uncomfortable with men present in certain situations counts for nothing? In your view a woman who has been raped and asks for a female counsellor should have to accept a transwoman to recount her assault to then because the risk of assault is low?

Given that women are statistically at higher risk in mixed sex facilities, you're telling women they should simply accept that higher risk and let the police sort it out afterwards.



I disagree. You are saying most men can pass as women. I don't believe they do. And of course they remain men, and access to women's single sex spaces isn't based on whether you look the part.

As usual, Cyclechat lads think women's spaces are a reward for men who have made an effort. They aren't.

There's no point in refuting this stuff.

We see the world through different prisms and nothing will change that.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Now do rape crisis centres, prisons, domestic violence refuges, sports, lesbian groups, hospital wards, disabled women who want same sex carers, intimate searches by police officers ...... explain to me again why men who have 'made an effort to look like women' (whatever that even means) should have access to those single sex women's spaces and services.

We've literally legitimised that level of humiliation....

 

[icowden]

You did say most transwomen wouldn't be noticed, which suggests you think these men pass as women. I disagree.

That's a fair point. However, how do you deal with the point that @monkers has made before that butch lesbians can look fairly "manly".

Whilst I'm still of the view that we are going the wrong way about the issue of Trans, I do agree with @monkers that the debate does make life more difficult for those who look different, and in the absence of full genital checks, it can be difficult to judge who should be in what bathroom based on looks alone.

Hence the toilet debate is just silly.