Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
- Start date
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multitool
Pharaoh
You love a nice cheap point, don't you Rora.
AuroraSaab
Squire
I don't call transwomen male. They are male. I pretty much use 'they' and 'them' when talking about specific trans individuals throughout the thread though, including BK.
AuroraSaab
Squire
You spend half your life on here claiming I'm inconsistent but don't like it being pointed out in others. Seems odd.
AuroraSaab
Squire
It wasn't shoplifting. They analysed 2 lots of data. Firstly 'any crime', then 'violent crime'. These are the results:
Why would transwomen not offend at the same rate as other men, especially given that to be a transwoman you don't have to be taking hrt or have had surgery?
Why would saying 'I'm a woman' magically overcome the effects of either testosterone or male socialisation?
(Edited the formatting to show all your quote)
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multitool
Pharaoh
So we still don't know the nature of the violent crime. Could be pub fights for all you know. Given that you are citing this as evidence of risk to women you'd still have to show that the crimes represent a risk to women.
And that is the problem with this. You are trying to use this study for something for which it was not intended.
And you don't seem to understand what a confounder is.
monkers
Legendary Member
Oh please, just try a bit of rational thinking. Do I really have to explain why this is hogwash? If no trans women took hormones you'd be on the beginnings of some kind of argument, but that they nearly do means that this just doesn't hold water, it's hogwash.
Male socialisation is what trans women are rejecting.
multitool
Pharaoh
Half my life? A few idle minutes when I'm on the bog/waiting in the car for kids/ bored in a meeting is not "half my life".
AuroraSaab
Squire
The 'violent crime' was defined as follows:
It includes sex crimes, so yes transwomen are the same risk to females in terms of committing a sex crime as any other man.
It was intended to look at a range of long term data re transgender people. It included mortality, suicide rates, and yes, criminality rates. It's data based. It's not opinion. It's a peer reviewed academic paper, not a survey. The methodology is standard and has not been questioned. The conclusions are drawn from the data. Unfortunately you don't like them.
classic33
Senior Member
I don't forget that he was a boy, when the gender recognition certificate was applied for, by someone else. I use she for after the gender recognition certificate was given.
Please show where I've said she's just like any other woman.
multitool
Pharaoh
Actually no, because the authors are not offering a data based assertion on the risk to women from TW. You are, but it's opinion.
AuroraSaab
Squire
Well they aren't doing it very successfully if they have the same rates of criminality as other men. Taking female hormones isn't some magic pill that stops male pattern criminality.
AuroraSaab
Squire
The risk is the same as from any other man, which is to say higher than from women. If you don't think men are a risk to women in general, just say so. It would imply you don't think there is any need for any safeguarding or separation between the sexes at all, but it would be more honest than the gymnastics you are undertaking to try to show that transwomen are somehow different from other men.
Fair enough, though it's a bit at odds with the idea that gender is innate and they've always been a woman. You've indicated they should be treated as a woman and was correctly placed in the women's prison but you now seem to be saying transwomen aren't just like other women.
multitool
Pharaoh
What you need your data to show is that the crimes against women by trans women is the same as crimes against women by cis men.
But it doesn't.
