Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

It's a simple task for you. Produce the relevant evidence. Let's see the evidence for the UK in recent times that backs up your claims.

There is no evidence available from the UK in recent times. The Tavistock are so crap they don't follow up on their kids to see how they get on. You know this. We do know that lots of those referred are same sex attracted - just like the kids in all the studies I linked.

Are Canadian and US kids totally different ftom British kids? Is academic research that is 10 or 15 years old suddenly irrelevant?
You are desperately straw grasping and looking for excuses to deny that most kids desist from a transgender identity after adolescence.

Of those none was a case of a trans woman with a GRC assaulting anyone in the toilets in the UK. Given all the negative daily publicity in the media, why do you think that is? Could it be that it just isn't happening?

Any fact you don't like is designated a lie.

Unfortunately there are a lot of facts you aren't going to like, from sex being binary to gay kids not being trans. You don't like the general public hearing about it either, which is why you have such a thing about Kathleen Stock and J K Rowling.

Of those none was a case of a trans woman with a GRC assaulting anyone in the toilets in the UK. Given all the negative daily publicity in the media, why do you think that is? Could it be that it just isn't happening?

So in order for society to apply the same rules of safeguarding, privacy etc. to transwomen with a GRC we are required to prove that transwomen with a GRC specifically have the same offending rates as other men? We can't just assume that transwomen with a GRC are essentially the same as non GRC transwomen or indeed other men?

If I could prove conclusively that men born in July offend at lower rates than men born in other months, would that mean we can abandon the conventions of safeguarding, privacy etc. in regard to those men? Of course not.

This is just special pleading that there are a group of individuals who should be exempt from the regulations we apply to similar individuals.

 

[multitool]

Are you able to prove that trans men are different to other women?

I keep saying 'self-selecting sample' to AS but it still hasn't twigged.

 

[AuroraSaab]

You are attempting to condemn all trans women on the basis that you think they might be dodgy.

They can be excluded for being male, which they are. It's not because they are trans.

This is tantamount to saying that all male car drivers should be treated as killers because some women and girls are killed in road incidents on UK roads.

No, it's acknowledgeding that we have single sex spaces and services for both men and women for good reasons. You are advocating for abandoning this practise because you think some of the people who historically have been responsible for the reason we have single sex spaces and services are somehow special and different. There is no reason to believe that is the case.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Are you able to prove that trans men are different to other women?

No, because they aren't. To be a woman you just need to have been born female and grow up. That's literally all it is. You can't opt in to it, you can't opt out of it.

In what way is a transman not a woman, Classic? Changing secondary characteristics through drugs or surgery doesn't change your sex. How could it?

 

[Bromptonaut]

No, because they aren't. To be a woman you just need to have been born female and grow up. That's literally all it is. You can't opt in to it, you can't opt out of it.

In what way is a transman not a woman, Classic? Changing secondary characteristics through drugs or surgery doesn't change your sex. How could it?

My former colleague Heather, formerly Barry, has had the drugs and the surgery. She has a GRC. She was way beyond child bearing age by the time she started to transition and many other women of her age are also without a uterus.

For all practical purposes she has changed sex.

How could that not be??

 

[Cirrus]

Incidentally there are some interesting things about this breaking news story which does appear to bolster the idea that transwomen are sexual predators - except of course that this person is not a transwoman except when they want to be a transwoman:-

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-65610429

The person in question was arrested presenting as Amy George and the court have been told that they str transitioning to female. Why then is the headline:-

Isn't this terribly disrespectful and misleading?

If this person is transitioning and known as Amy George as stated in the article, then the BBC have made an error in deadnaming and misgendering, passing this offence off as a male offence purely on the basis that Amy was willing to be addressed as Andrew and to accept "he" pronouns at the time of her arrest? Should the BBC be cancelled for the appalling attack on the transgender community?

Are we back to choosing a gender of convenience?

10 years ago, we would have said that he was probably mentally ill. Now he is just another woman who has attacked a woman, otherwise we would be guilty of double standards.

That's why this stuff matters.

Schrödinger’s gender

 

[AuroraSaab]

My former colleague Heather, formerly Barry, has had the drugs and the surgery. She has a GRC. She was way beyond child bearing age by the time she started to transition and many other women of her age are also without a uterus.

For all practical purposes she has changed sex.

How could that not be??

Lots of biological women don't have a uterus. They are still women. Your friend has changed their secondary characteristics not their sex. This isn't a problem at all - adults are free to change their body as they wish, wear what they want etc. - but there may come a point where these 'practical purposes' clash with women's need for single sex spaces and services. Most of the time sex doesn't matter, but sometimes it matters very much.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Lots of biological women don't have a uterus. They are still women. Your friend has changed their secondary characteristics not their sex. This isn't a problem at all - adults are free to change their body as they wish, wear what they want etc. - but there may come a point where these 'practical purposes' clash with women's need for single sex spaces and services. Most of the time sex doesn't matter, but sometimes it matters very much.

She is not, and never was, my friend. She was a member of a 'Quango' where I was part of the Secretariat.

 

[monkers]

There is no evidence available from the UK in recent times.

Finally, you admit you have no evidence.

 

[monkers]

Any fact you don't like is designated a lie.

Unfortunately there are a lot of facts you aren't going to like, from sex being binary to gay kids not being trans. You don't like the general public hearing about it either, which is why you have such a thing about Kathleen Stock and J K Rowling.

I'm not going to call something 'a fact' in the face of no evidence just on your say so. Just no. You keep saying this is a fact, and that is a fact.
Finally you admit, there is no evidence. You're a fraud.

 

[AuroraSaab]

She is not, and never was, my friend. She was a member of a 'Quango' where I was part of the Secretariat.

Apologies.

Finally, you admit you have no evidence.

Half a dozen research papers, by different scientists, all saying the same thing, all peer reviewed and published in journals etc. isn't evidence, but your anecdotes and interminable straw grasping are.

Your entire argument is 'There are special men who we must not treat like other men'. That's it. That's literally the whole thing.

 

[monkers]

So in order for society to apply the same rules of safeguarding, privacy etc. to transwomen with a GRC we are required to prove that transwomen with a GRC specifically have the same offending rates as other men? We can't just assume that transwomen with a GRC are essentially the same as non GRC transwomen or indeed other men?

No you can not, not an individual basis and especially not as a group basis, especially without evidence. Clearly to do so is bigotry. Convention law, any person is innocent until proven guilty. Everyone is entitled to a fail trial.

What you are advocating is bigotry.

Trans women with a GRC under the law are female, so yes you are required to accommodate, even if you don't like it.

 

[monkers]

Your entire argument is 'There are special men who we must not treat like other men'. That's it. That's literally the whole thing.

It's not my argument. This is me quoting a fact. Trans women with a GRC are female according to convention rights and UK law.

I doubt you need quotes and links, because you know it's true. UN women's groups tried to tell GCs and TERFs this, but you all celebrated when Glinner told them 'to go fark themselves.' That's right, a man silenced a whole international body of women, and women cheered and said, 'let women speak'.

 

[monkers]

Half a dozen research papers, by different scientists, all saying the same thing, all peer reviewed and published in journals etc. isn't evidence, but your anecdotes and interminable straw grasping are.

I guess you are trying to shift goalposts now to sport because you can not defend your bigotry.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I'm not going to call something 'a fact' in the face of no evidence just on your say so. Just no. You keep saying this is a fact, and that is a fact.
Finally you admit, there is no evidence. You're a fraud.

Half a dozen research papers that show most children desist from a trans identity eventually, and UK research that suggests social transitioning doesn't make dysphoric kids feel better about their bodies. This 'no evidence'...

There's no evidence that you would find acceptable because if it doesn't agree with you it's all lies. Those terrible bigoted eminent academics and doctors, doing their research to agreed professional standards, having it peer reviewed and published - and importantly not in the pay of big pharma or earning their living from trans medicine - are all entirely wrong.

People with GRC's can still be excluded from single sex services and spaces. The Equality Act allows it. The UN convention on dignity etc. is a general principle; it doesn't dictate to countries how they must apply it in domestic law.

I haven't mentioned sport today. But you don't accept the science there either lol so it's no surprise you think other academic research is all lies.

Sports wise, literally nobody gives a toss about this. Transwoman enjoys motorsport:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-65573295.amp


People do give a toss about this. Transwoman wants to play in women's rugby:


View: https://twitter.com/Nancy_M_K/status/1657427311036170242


3.4 million views, 222 likes.