Gender again. Sorry!

[Ian H]

I know a lovely trans person...

That bit is true. The rest is your completely egregious invention. It gets rather tedious.

 

[monkers]

they're all just small minded bigots right?? .

It's taken a lot of pages but you got there in the end.

 

[mudsticks]

It's taken a lot of pages but you got there in the end.

There we have it folks.

Anyone, particularly any woman who has any qualms about any of these issues, in any way shape or form, particularly in relation to how it impacts women's lives is a small minded bigot.

Case closed.

 

[monkers]

which you know is just nitpicking. The reason it has been relabelled from women to female is precisely because of the need to protect women's sport for biological females.

There is a choice. Either transwomen are not women and race in the trans and binary category or transwomen are women, but cannot race in the biological female category.

The compromise solution is to have a male and female category and an open category for anyone not biologically male or female or who is uncomfortable racing under those designations.

Your friend has a choice, and is not being prevented from participating or competing. If she chooses not to because of idealism, that's down to her. It's insane to try and make rules to cover every possible designation.

Not nickpicking. I don't think you are seeing a problem that is in plain sight. The CTT say the changes are being made to make sure that there is no biological advantage of trans people over others.

My friend is biologically female. My friend has no biological advantage over other females. The two new categories are 'female' and 'open'.

My friend is like Aurora in as much as they have opinions about gender identity, or more specifically how people are treated according to the expectations of others. My friend does not want to hear expressions such as 'not very ladylike', 'she's a bit butch'. and other expressions the hear, such as like 'looks like a man'. In one previous job my friend was told by her male boss without any context, 'I might as well shag a man as you'.

My friend used to be a teacher, but now works for the NHS. My friend is six feet and a half inch tall and prefers to wear their hair short. My friend has a voice at the lower end of the female range. At work, they work in a unform, too often people misgender my friend due to their perceptions of what a 'woman' should look like. In public toilets my friend has been very rudely challenged by women who make assumptions. My friend has been told too often that they are 'too tall to be a woman'.

Now, under the new rules, my biologically female friend is being told by the CTT that they can not compete in the female class, but must instead compete in the open class where Aurora and yourself have been saying that they will have a disadvantage.

My friend is less troubled by concern about competition, but my friend is furious that the CTT think that they are in a position to regulate who can compete not just in a biological class, but also what words a competitor uses about their gender identity. This ruling does just not reflect decisions made by considering the science of biological sex, it also reflects their bigotry, in my friend's opinion.

 

[monkers]

There we have it folks.

Anyone, particularly any woman who has any qualms about any of these issues, in any way shape or form, particularly in relation to how it impacts women's lives is a small minded bigot.

Case closed.

Remember that I must type 'irony' in brackets for you each time I post anything with a hint of irony.

When those people who use bigotry are called out for it, there is justification. On the other hand no justification is needed for calling out bigots or liars for that matter.

Aurora presents as an idiot because too often she makes wild claims only to contradict herself later. When this is challenged she flip flops between defending one opinion and the other.

 

[icowden]

Now, under the new rules, my biologically female friend is being told by the CTT that they can not compete in the female class, but must instead compete in the open class where Aurora and yourself have been saying that they will have a disadvantage.

No she isn't. She is being told that she can choose. She can compete in the female class or the open. That is her choice. She is not being prevented from participating in the female class. She is just limiting herself.

My friend is less troubled by concern about competition, but my friend is furious that the CTT think that they are in a position to regulate who can compete not just in a biological class, but also what words a competitor uses about their gender identity.

Again, she is just looking in the mirror. No female competitor is required to describe themselves as female. They just have to be able to certify that they are biologically female.

She has a free choice but is choosing to restrict herself.

 

[icowden]

Aurora presents as an idiot because too often she makes wild claims only to contradict herself later. When this is challenged she flip flops between defending one opinion and the other.

If that is the case, is it OK that we refer to you and multitool as bullies as too often you use insulting language and put downs rather than coherent rational argument when addressing points that you disagree with?

 

[monkers]

If that is the case, is it OK that we refer to you and multitool as bullies as too often you use insulting language and put downs rather than coherent rational argument when addressing points that you disagree with?

If that is your opinion you are free to express it. In my own opinion I am meeting human rights oppression head on. I can not abide bullies, bigots, liars, or cheats, and I stand up to them both on-line and off-line. Always have, always will. Sometimes it looks ugly - so be it.

I don't think you can say that I haven't been using cogent rational argument though.

 

[monkers]

No she isn't. She is being told that she can choose. She can compete in the female class or the open. That is her choice. She is not being prevented from participating in the female class. She is just limiting herself.

Again, she is just looking in the mirror. No female competitor is required to describe themselves as female. They just have to be able to certify that they are biologically female.

She has a free choice but is choosing to restrict herself.

From CTT ...

Non-binary persons (persons who affirm that they are neither male nor female) shall be required to compete in the Open
category.

Non-binary does not mean neither male or female. I thought you had the belief that people are either male or female?

This is the utter nonsense of their new policy.

My friend identifies as sex = female, gender = non-binary.

 

[multitool]

If that is the case, is it OK that we refer to you and multitool as bullies as too often you use insulting language and put downs

I use accurate descriptive language, icow, not insults.

If you look carefully you'll see it is you that has resorted to insult.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Now, under the new rules, my biologically female friend is being told by the CTT that they can not compete in the female class, but must instead compete in the open class where Aurora and yourself have been saying that they will have a disadvantage.

They competed in the female class previously as a non binary person without feeling their gender identity was being disrespected though. 'Womens' in CTT is a sex class, so they can compete there regardless of gender identity.

Glad you've stopped mispronounding them though. That was a bit embarrassing for you.

 

[mudsticks]

Remember that I must type 'irony' in brackets for you each time I post anything with a hint of irony.

When those people who use bigotry are called out for it, there is justification. On the other hand no justification is needed for calling out bigots or liars for that matter.

Aurora presents as an idiot because too often she makes wild claims only to contradict herself later. When this is challenged she flip flops between defending one opinion and the other.

Oh but dear we can all play the 'only joking' 'I was being 'ironic' card..
Can't we.??

When our oh so clever posting didn't quite land.

As others apparently 'lacking in humour' is a worser crime than steamrollering kittens, right.??

Methinks too much hanging out with Bolders.

Here we are have some of these, they're very useful, and apparently excuse all sorts of bahoolix .

😉😉😉😉😉😉😉

 

[icowden]

I use accurate descriptive language, icow, not insults.
If you look carefully you'll see it is you that has resorted to insult.

Says the man who repeatedly claims that repeatedly insulting me is due to his inability to type 6 letters in a row.
I have only responded to your repeated insults in like manner.

You will note that my exchanges with @monkers and others have been polite, thought out and without rancour.
Now - back to your greenhouse and get fixing those windows.

 

[multitool]

Says the man who repeatedly claims that repeatedly insulting me is due to his inability to type 6 letters in a row.
I have only responded to your repeated insults in like manner.

Only you could find your own name insulting, icow.

 

[monkers]

They competed in the female class previously as a non binary person without feeling their gender identity was being disrespected though. 'Womens' in CTT is a sex class, so they can compete there regardless of gender identity.

Glad you've stopped mispronounding them though. That was a bit embarrassing for you.

It was intentional for clarity in the first place, but yeh I think I goofed a couple of times too. I worked with my friend in a school when we were both in education - this was at a time before she started declaring non-binary (not an error there btw, it's contemporaneous). We were close at the time, but we haven't met for what might be a couple of years now, though we chat otherwise.

I have mentioned this friend before - being the friend that actually punched a woman in a public toilet after being challenged by the same Karen on the third occasion, and in response to being pushed aggressively in the heat of the argument.

I have another friend, a much more recently befriended friend who is equally tall, takes size 9.5 shoes, and likewise she has been getting harassed in places too, on one occasion in my presence by a man and a woman. We were strolling on the sea front when she was verbally assaulted by the pair of them. Extraordinary behaviour. She describes how she was bullied all through school by other girls and became clinically depressed due to the cruelty. In adulthood things improved until more recently. Now things have flared up again and really affecting her mental health.