Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

It shows that the problem is male violence. No evidence that transwomen are any different from other males in terms of risk. I'd be genuinely surprised if a third of recorded violence in the UK was down to females. Please give a link.

Mostly male violence, mostly male victims.

I mentioned the Met and you claimed without data that males here were the problem.

The Met are said to have the most complete data sets. The figures I gave were for Met policing area. The source was from a Tweet from them.

I'd need to go mining for a link that confirms the figures.

But if you want to identify one demographic where there are the highest number of assailants, then forget trans people, they hardly feature.

 

[monkers]

I've refound the Tweet. The data is for the Met policing area and relates to cases of 'most serious violence' in young victims and offenders.

Victims 29 577. Suspects 27 124

Victims: male 60% v female 40%

Suspects: male 68% v female 32%

Now I need to time to look for a credible source.

In the meantime you can look for your claims that it is only male police offenders who assault female victims. It's only fair.

 

[monkers]

https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2022-10/Serious youth violence problem profile.pdf

 

[AuroraSaab]

This is what you said:

Actually no. Splendid isolation of facts to a special compartment in your head makes you believe this is true. Age plays a bigger part overall than sex.

By far the biggest number of victims are young males. The assailants of them are about two thirds male, and one third female, and no evidence to show that any of these people are trans.

In fact you got those figures from Met data that was on youth crime. In the UK's biggest city with a known problem of youth crime and gang related violence, so far more likely to have violent girls than national statistics as a whole. These aren't the National crime stats.

Of course age plays a bigger part in violent youth crime. Muggings, gangs, and fighting are crimes people grow out of. Of course London youth crime stats will feature girls in a higher proportion than general crime stats because again it's London and again young women are more likely to get in fights than older women.

Extrapolating from youth crime stats for London that perpetrator age is a bigger risk factor to women than sex is nonsense. As is extrapolating that women comit a third of violent crime from one stat on London youth crime.

We've covered this several times. It's men who present the biggest risk to women and girls. You've shown absolutely no evidence why any given male born person should be treated any differently from other men in terms of women's safety, privacy, and dignity.

 

[monkers]

Rates of violent crime have more to do with the age of victim and assailant.

n fact you got those figures from Met data that was only on youth crime

Kerching (penny drops). As I had previously just said.

The number of teenage girls committing serious assaults in London alone is a greater number than the entire number of trans women with a GRC in all of the UK. Are we now to demonise teenage girls and ban them from all female spaces?

That's now exposed the lie of the FPFW that you keep parroting - the abuse of data. Same thing with the Swedish Report. In that case the data was abused by Stock et al for nefarious purposes. The author of the Swedish Report spoke out and said as much.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The accurate comparator is not transwomen with a GRC vs teenage London girls, but men vs teenage London girls. Transwomen with a GRC are not some special cohort who are miraculously different from other males. Those stats will show that males are overwhelmingly still the risk.

There are no special subsets of men to whom the safeguarding that we apply to other men does not apply, regardless of how they identify or what level their libido is or what certificate they hold.

 

[icowden]

There was a factual piece written by me concerning the atrophying effects of female hormones on male genitals, penis, testes and scrotum.

But you have already conceded that hormone treatment is not a pre-requisite to be a transwoman. So yes, we agree that if a transwoman is actually having hormonal treatment, that the risk of rape goes down. For those that aren't the risk is the same as for men.

There was also a throwaway comment from me calling you out for being such a dick about it still maintaining that these women are rapists.

Which women? The ones on hormones or the ones not on hormones?

 

[icowden]

The number of teenage girls committing serious assaults in London alone is a greater number than the entire number of trans women with a GRC in all of the UK. Are we now to demonise teenage girls and ban them from all female spaces?

No because this statistic is a bit useless. You need to normalise it by measuring the number of teenage girls committing assaults against the total number of teenage girls in London and then compare that with the same calculation for transwomen with a GRC.

For example, if 20 girls out of 20,000 commit a serious assault but 5 out of 10 transwomen with a GRC commit serious assault, which group should we be concerned about?

 

[classic33]

??? Little kids and old people don't comit much violent and sexual crime. We know. What about the ones who do comit these crimes? Do they have anything in common? A single factor that makes them more likely to be a perpetrator than other people who aren't that thing?

It shows that the problem is male violence. No evidence that transwomen are any different from other males in terms of risk. I'd be genuinely surprised if a third of recorded violence in the UK was down to females. Please give a link.



Who is assaulting them? Other males. Men can be dangerous, we agree. I acknowledge that they are more likely to be the victim of physical assault than women. So are black men. So are gay men. So are men in general. That in itself does not override concerns about men's presence in single sex spaces or services - these are not refuges for vulnerable males, nor does their vulnerability mean they should have access.

Little kids, like a 12 year old girl?

 

[monkers]

But you have already conceded that hormone treatment is not a pre-requisite to be a transwoman. So yes, we agree that if a transwoman is actually having hormonal treatment, that the risk of rape goes down. For those that aren't the risk is the same as for men.

Which women? The ones on hormones or the ones not on hormones?

I wouldn't call it a concession. I didn't need to concede as if under pressure to do so. It's what I have always said, because it's true.

But to put it into full context, the panel need to be convinced that the applicant has taken available steps. If a person can not take hormones due to other medical reasons, then that is accepted. Likewise surgery, as I explained way back when I first entered the forum, there are plenty of trans women who have been taking hormones, but then been left to languish on the vine until a point is reached where they no longer have the donor material required for surgery.

So the requirement for hormones or surgery is not an absolute requirement, the panel need some explanation of why this has not been so before they will grant a GRC.

It isn't a case of just do nothing through choice and still get a GRC without question.

 

[theclaud]

'

Little kids, like a 12 year old girl?

Another normal evening at Chateau Classic, is it?

 

[monkers]

The accurate comparator is not transwomen with a GRC vs teenage London girls, but men vs teenage London girls. Transwomen with a GRC are not some special cohort who are miraculously different from other males. Those stats will show that males are overwhelmingly still the risk.

There are no special subsets of men to whom the safeguarding that we apply to other men does not apply, regardless of how they identify or what level their libido is or what certificate they hold.

There is nothing wrong with a comparison between of the violence of teenage girls with any other cohort. Let's not pretend that these figures can just be overlooked or dismissed just because they are female.

These young women present a large-scale risk to others in London. They would represent a high risk of harm to women prisoners if jailed.

 

[monkers]

I see you squirming Aurora and icowden when confronted with real data using real numbers.

According to the data there were almost 70 000 cases of assault by juveniles in the Metropolitan policing area. This ranges from lower level assault to homicide with everything in between - nearly a third (31%) of them committed by young women.

It's really significant, young people are the group responsible for most violent crime, and are also the victims of it too. Trans people are four times more likely to victims of this crime than cis people.

This is how you actually do crime data.

 

[classic33]

It's being going on a lot longer than Aurora's current monomania, which dates to, what, 2015 at the earliest?

You mean it isn't the only username on cyclechat she's posted under?

 

[theclaud]

You mean it isn't the only username on cyclechat she's posted under?

I'm sure, if she had, you'd already be across the fact and entered it into some spreadsheet or small black book. The 'what' denoted a guess. Obvs.