Gender again. Sorry!

[multitool]

This will give Aurora a stroke, but I agree with her on this.

Broadly, there are three lexicons at play: that of biological science as it currently stands, legal terminology, and language in common usage.

The core issue is a conceptual shift whereby instead of seeing differences in people’s experiences as being significantly shaped by the physical and social consequences of being born female, they are effectively something detached from this and centered around gender identity, and to the extent this should be reflected in law.

GCs, like Aurora, see this as threatening the protection of natal women. I, and the elected body of Holyrood, do not. We've gone back and forth over this, covering attitudes towards it as well as an appeal for data that supports either view. I would happily accept Aurora's position on this if she could provide some non-anecdotal evidence, but as yet she cannot go beyond a shrill* ideological position.

Relating this back to cycling, it is like the helmet debate. Hours and hours spent on something that is largely irrelevant to cyclist safety on public roads.

*no need to comment on this choice of word, AS, because, yes, it was deliberately chosen to annoy.

 

[Fab Foodie]

There's much about this thread I find confusing, but now I'm totally biffled:

The joy of typos....

 

[multitool]

The joy of typos....

It's probably not in the Urban dictionary, but I'd advise not checking. Just in case.

 

[AuroraSaab]

For somebody who continually tells me I don't speak for others, you repeatedly tell me what my view is on stuff. None of that paragraph is my view. It's your simplified charactacture of one feminist position on the matter.

I have no idea what all the 'this'll give you a stroke but'.. 'this'll make you angry but..', '..here's something to enrage you, AS...' stuff is about. It's very odd. You're the only one in this thread who loses their cool and falls back on swearing and telling other posters they are beneath you and your phenomenal debating skills.

I've lost track of whether I'm compelled to reply to you now or forbidden to. It's hard to keep up.

 

[multitool]

It is exactly your view. After what seems like an age of you wilfully misrepresenting the views of others, here you are now misrepresenting your own. You are the gift that keeps on giving.

You aren't compelled to do anything, by the way (yet another tedious misrepresentation), but as others have noted, it would be nice if you didn't put up straw men as a debating tactic, didn't repeatedly pivot onto something different when challenged, didn't argue by assertion, didn't try and disenfranchise people from debate on the basis of their gender (and yes, I realise you'll pick up on that and try and present me as doing that to you despite me repeatedly pointing out that the evidence is that your view is a minority view amongst women).

I'm not angry, I'm bored, by the above, and if you aren't going to engage in debate in a consistent and honest manner then I'm just going to use you as my muse as and when I see fit. I mean you are singularly humourless, so if I can't laugh with you etc.

As for the swearing, I like swearing. It's fun.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I'm happy for people to read this whole thread and make what they will of the arguments presented, and the posters who present them. As for all the other stuff in your post, well 'You do you', mate.

 

[Unkraut]

no need to comment on this choice of word, AS, because, yes, it was deliberately chosen to annoy.

Auroraphobia ...

 

[icowden]

Aurora likes simple concepts she can grasp. She doesn't like nuance, say for example a word meaning one thing in common usage, but having a different meaning in law. She likes simple rhetorical tricks, say for example violence exists amongst men, therefore men are violent, trans women are men therefore trans women are violent. Case closed.

Whereas @multitool is a huge fan of gaslighting women by asserting that they are stupid and their opinions are pointless. He likes to pretend to be superior by constantly putting down the opinions of other people regardless of how well researched they are. Like most emotionally abusive men he has a desire to own and control. He cannot engage in constructive debate. Case closed.

 

[multitool]

Ah.

icowden.

The Human Vuvuzela.

 

[icowden]

Ah.
icowden.
The Human Vuvuzela.

And @multitool a tool on many levels.

 

[multitool]

If only I'd thought of an amusingly self-deprecating username instead.

 

[icowden]

(and yes, I realise you'll pick up on that and try and present me as doing that to you despite me repeatedly pointing out that the evidence is that your view is a minority view amongst women).

So lets go back to the survey from equalityhumanrights. Does it really say what you think it says?
66% of women were comfortable with a trans woman using the women's toilets. Fair enough. I think we get overexcited about toilets.
Women's refuges? 51% said they were comfortable or very comfortable. So that's almost a 50/50 split between those who think it's a good idea and those who don't.

Does it matter? How do these findings back the removal of all legal protections from women's spaces? All that they say is that more women than not are reasonbly comfortable with the idea of Transwomen accessing spaces. I don't see where they were asked about the removal of legal protections, which is what the Scottish bill would achieve.

 

[multitool]

No, let's stick with your dullwitted thoughts on my username. It's far funnier.

 

[winjim]

Look, I started off with high ambitions for this thread.

It's not your fault, you weren't very well.

 

[matticus]

It is exactly your view. After what seems like an age of you wilfully misrepresenting the views of others, here you are now misrepresenting your own. You are the gift that keeps on giving.

What a lovely chap you seem to be; and so willing to engage with other views, so keen to consider the concerns of those in a different situation to your own!

It's touching, and VERY persuasive ... I look forward to your input on other topics.