Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
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Ian H
Legendary Member
I found Monkers' explanations illuminating & reassuring.
monkers
Legendary Member
A reply from me to recent posts. I just wish to remind people that my view is that the present situation is caused by the ongoing systemic political failures that now feature in our country. Austerity was a political choice made by the successive governments since 2010.
While government has given greater responsibilities to individuals and bodies outside the remit of central government, local authorities, unitary authorities, county councils, the police service, the judiciary, the prison service, health services, child services, youth services, career services, schools, FE colleges, etc etc have all had either severe cuts or increases that have failed to meet increasing demand or inflation. Chaos is the result.
At the same time there have been 'opportunities' for principals, Vice Chancellors, CEOs, and so on to do very well. My opinion for what it is worth, that we have gone through the motions of democracy and ended up with sock puppets.
The net results are that society is breaking down and suffering, while the wealth gap has increased, along with opportunities for corruption for those close to government. The abdication of responsibility of government gives them the opportunity to fingerpoint and blame others ... always.
They use external bodies to monitor services and ignore every report that implicates failures of government. The promises are frequent but ultimately empty and optimism becomes unfulfilled.
You'd think reading the press that women's prisons are safe places for women. They are not. Women's prisons are terrible places with high levels of violence and sexual abuse perpetrated by women on women.
Please read this report and try not to be shocked ...
https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/derbyshire-womens-prison-most-violent-7633074
It is not true that female prisoners would be safe if were not for trans women being housed on female prison estate. In one other case violence was at a high level. The trans prisoners were moved out, shortly after the violence was reported as being worse.
There is nothing like shortage of resources, lack of facilities, lack of support services, lack of leisure and education to cause unrest in a prison. There's nothing like a lack of engagement and boredom to create trouble in any institution - ask any teacher!
The so-called trans debate, and demands for trans exclusion have commonality; trans has become the default for deflection and distraction, a mask if you will for political failure.
The way forward, if one exists, is careful and detailed examination of the problems, and advocacy for solutions. The UK is desperate for a pay rise and for services to be restored to the levels they were prior to 2010.
Austerity was supposed to be a temporary fix to enable the country to pay down sovereign debt. Pre-covid sovereign debt had increased to the extent that graphically it was almost a straight line upwards. Covid has added to our woes it is true, but corruption forced it higher than it needed to be.
In 2010 sovereign debt stood at £0.8tn, this figure included the loans and guarantees of loans (not all taken up) by banks.
UK sovereign debt now is close to £2.8tn - that's an increase of £2tn since 2010.
Check this out ...
https://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/
Trans people are not the enemy of this country, political failure is. Trans people are not the cause of our political failures, government is.
Sorry for my lecturing tone (I used to do it for a living).
While government has given greater responsibilities to individuals and bodies outside the remit of central government, local authorities, unitary authorities, county councils, the police service, the judiciary, the prison service, health services, child services, youth services, career services, schools, FE colleges, etc etc have all had either severe cuts or increases that have failed to meet increasing demand or inflation. Chaos is the result.
At the same time there have been 'opportunities' for principals, Vice Chancellors, CEOs, and so on to do very well. My opinion for what it is worth, that we have gone through the motions of democracy and ended up with sock puppets.
The net results are that society is breaking down and suffering, while the wealth gap has increased, along with opportunities for corruption for those close to government. The abdication of responsibility of government gives them the opportunity to fingerpoint and blame others ... always.
They use external bodies to monitor services and ignore every report that implicates failures of government. The promises are frequent but ultimately empty and optimism becomes unfulfilled.
You'd think reading the press that women's prisons are safe places for women. They are not. Women's prisons are terrible places with high levels of violence and sexual abuse perpetrated by women on women.
Please read this report and try not to be shocked ...
https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/derbyshire-womens-prison-most-violent-7633074
It is not true that female prisoners would be safe if were not for trans women being housed on female prison estate. In one other case violence was at a high level. The trans prisoners were moved out, shortly after the violence was reported as being worse.
There is nothing like shortage of resources, lack of facilities, lack of support services, lack of leisure and education to cause unrest in a prison. There's nothing like a lack of engagement and boredom to create trouble in any institution - ask any teacher!
The so-called trans debate, and demands for trans exclusion have commonality; trans has become the default for deflection and distraction, a mask if you will for political failure.
The way forward, if one exists, is careful and detailed examination of the problems, and advocacy for solutions. The UK is desperate for a pay rise and for services to be restored to the levels they were prior to 2010.
Austerity was supposed to be a temporary fix to enable the country to pay down sovereign debt. Pre-covid sovereign debt had increased to the extent that graphically it was almost a straight line upwards. Covid has added to our woes it is true, but corruption forced it higher than it needed to be.
In 2010 sovereign debt stood at £0.8tn, this figure included the loans and guarantees of loans (not all taken up) by banks.
UK sovereign debt now is close to £2.8tn - that's an increase of £2tn since 2010.
Check this out ...
https://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/
Trans people are not the enemy of this country, political failure is. Trans people are not the cause of our political failures, government is.
Sorry for my lecturing tone (I used to do it for a living).
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multitool
Pharaoh
An example of this today, from you-know-who, albeit without the subtlety
View: https://twitter.com/ICanSeeForever1/status/1619730366134370304?s=20&t=tNcQ9arY59o4YfIylYti1w
monkers
Legendary Member
AuroraSaab
Squire
They rape and abuse because they are men, not because they are transgender. Is it your position that every person who claims to be a transwoman is 100% genuinely suffering from dysphoria? You don't think any of them are pretending to be transwomen in order to gain advantages?
As I have said before, Kelly Jay Keen is one voice on the UK women's rights scene, but not the only voice. She's not the leader of UK feminism because there isn't one. I'm not sure she even calls herself a feminist.
As you seem to prefer Julie Bindel, here she is writing about the transactivists who protested outside the Filia Women's Rights Conference last year.
https://unherd.com/thepost/the-misogyny-of-trans-activists/
Here's some of the artwork of the transactivists who protested:
I could find you dozens of examples of similar stuff from transactivists.
AuroraSaab
Squire
All prisons are unpleasant and not very safe. You don't make women's prisons any safer by adding males. I would be grateful for a link to the case where a women's prison became worse after trans prisoners were removed.
monkers
Legendary Member
My policy is not to engage with absolutists. No good ever comes of it. Neither am I going to engage in a game of top Trumps of outliers with you with your cache of photographs.
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AuroraSaab
Squire
I think a misogynist might try to suggest that discussing keeping women's prisons single sex because transwomen offend at the same rate as other men is somehow an illegal hate crime. I think a misogynist would try to stifle debate by mud slinging.
I think there's evidence some men pretend to be trans in order to game the system. Funnily enough, I think these men are more likely to be rapists and abusers because they have more to gain by transfer to a women's prison. Otherwise how do you account for the number who discover they are transgender only after being arrested? And then stop being transgender on release from prison? Could be lots of reasons for this, of course, but it is a bit odd.
The fact that you constantly say I am conflating transwomen with rapists and abusers seems to suggest that you think the recent cases are all genuinely transgender. Perhaps you could clarify whether you think men sometimes claim to be trans when they aren't or whether everyone is who they say they are.
AuroraSaab
Squire
Hardly outliers, though I would make a distinction between transactivists and the trans community in general. Placards like that, and black clad masked groups intimidating women, are a feature of transactivism. And they have done more to set back their own cause than Kelly Jay Keen could ever dream of.
monkers
Legendary Member
Not playing.
AuroraSaab
Squire
It's a 'When did you stop beating your wife' question, so there's no answer going to be forthcoming as you well know.
As I keep saying, people can read this thread and decide for themselves. Insults have been your stock in trade throughout this discussion, to me and others, so it's a bit rich to moan about it now.
I didn't say you were pro-rapist, I said advocating for Isla Bryson to be placed in a women's prison was shilling for rapists. This prisoner was due to be moved to a women's prison too but all moves are under review now.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/new-trans-prisoner-storm-looms-29069314
I don't think they are genuinely transgender. Do you think they are?
