Gender again. Sorry!

[icowden]

How is it appropriate in that setting to have a member of staff setting up a political campaign against marginalised groups?
I'm not sure that that was what she did. She herself says that:

I've been researching sex, gender and justice for two decades and am known around the world for my work. But things started to go horribly wrong at the OU when I expressed views about the silencing of academic debate on trans issues, criticising Stonewall’s influence in universities. I also expressed views that male-bodied prisoners should not be in female prisons, and I set up the Open University Gender Critical Research Network.

Nothing about a political campaign. Only research and open discussion.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It was nothing to do with arguments between women. It was a straightforward case of whether an employer met their obligations to protect an employee from workplace bullying for views that are legal to hold and to express.

The OU has both the OU Transgender Network and an OU gay student association already on the go by the way. I'm not of the view that they should be shut down.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Because the panel found on the precedent of Forstater that philosophical belief is protected. Saying (and to paraphrase) 'like listening to a racist uncle at the dinner table' was not protected speech.

This is predictable since philosophical belief and religious belief are absolute rights, whereas freedom of expression is a qualified (licensed or restricted) right.

The OU lose as the employer in this battle of rights between warring women - just like Forstater case.

They key take away from Forstater is that the belief is protected. What you say and do in manifesting that belief is not.

The Tribunal's decision is far to long and involved to pick the meat out of when I'm supposed to be working. Did the employer try to discipline her or is it more that they failed to stop others from acting in a way that made her position, from her perspective, untenable?

I was told several times, while trying to be a manager, that Constructive Dismissal is actually quite a hard gig to work.....

 

[multitool]

https://x.com/Adi_Aliza_DG/status/1750205758212325831?s=20

Indeed. Real feminists fighting real battles.

Not weirdo cultists wanging on and on in internet fora about a problem that only exists in their head.

 

[AndyRM]

Lia Thomas is launching an appeal against her ban, although CAS may not even hear it. Be interesting to see how this plays out:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/swimming/68104658

 

[Deleted member 159]

No case to answer I suspect

 

[AndyRM]

I'm not so sure. But CAS generally operates behind closed doors so if the case does get heard we'll probably never know what was actually said.

 

[icowden]

I'm not so sure. But CAS generally operates behind closed doors so if the case does get heard we'll probably never know what was actually said.

This is interesting:-

Thomas is yet to comment. In 2022 she said she hoped to compete in the US trials for the Paris 2024 Olympics and that transgender athletes were "not a threat" to female competitors.

She wants to be allowed to compete but seems to be saying she has no chance of winning. In which case, why compete?

 

[AndyRM]

This is interesting:-

She wants to be allowed to compete but seems to be saying she has no chance of winning. In which case, why compete?

She's not been eligible to take part in the trials, that's why she didn't have a chance. Unless I've misread it.

 

[icowden]

She's not been eligible to take part in the trials, that's why she didn't have a chance. Unless I've misread it.

But why bother if she isn't a threat to other female competitors? Unless she is, in fact, a threat to other female competitors due to her massive strength and physique acquired during puberty.

 

[AndyRM]

But why bother if she isn't a threat to other female competitors? Unless she is, in fact, a threat to other female competitors due to her massive strength and physique acquired during puberty.

Oh, I see what you've done there...

Very clever.

 

[monkers]

This is interesting:-

She wants to be allowed to compete but seems to be saying she has no chance of winning. In which case, why compete?

That's a bit like saying, you'll never be the world's first trillionaire so there's no point going to work, and we are all better off thinking the same.

 

[monkers]

As far as competition swimming is concerned, it seems that height is a very significant factor. The most successful are nearly always tall, as being long in the water is what helps to make these swimmers dominant.

My ex sister-in-law tried for the Olympic swimming team fifty odd years ago - she just missed out by a tiny margin - and fifty years ago she was saying she missed out because the faster women were taller. For her event she was two inches away from success beaten by women that were three to four inches taller - she's five foot eight.

https://www.a3performance.com/blogs/a3-performance/swimmers-tall-and-short

 

[Deleted member 159]

As far as competition swimming is concerned, it seems that height is a very significant factor. The most successful are nearly always tall, as being long in the water is what helps to make these swimmers dominant.

My ex sister-in-law tried for the Olympic swimming team fifty odd years ago - she just missed out by a tiny margin - and fifty years ago she was saying she missed out because the faster women were taller. For her event she was two inches away from success beaten by women that were three to four inches taller - she's five foot eight.

https://www.a3performance.com/blogs/a3-performance/swimmers-tall-and-short

Just imagine if a male had also been competing . She would have got nowhere near to missing out

 

[monkers]

Just imagine if a male had also been competing . She would have got nowhere near to missing out

She was also aware that some women were using testosterone in those days. She was never bitter about it, just made the point that she felt she was a better person for not succumbing to the methods of cheating available to her.

There are still people cheating in top level sport. The latest stories I've seen involve athletes eating blood worms.