dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
which is missing the point completely
Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
- Start date
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AndyRM
Elder Goth
I hadn't read this before, but there are a lot of valid and reasoned points in this article, which is admittedly a couple of years old but still relevant:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517
AuroraSaab
Squire
Harper (the transwoman researcher in the article) has switched their position over the years. As it became clear that transwomen athletes maintain their male advantage, even after hormones, they have moved from 'No advantage' to a position that transwomen should be allowed to compete because the advantage is reduced and therefore 'meaningful'.
This makes no sense. Harper talks about the advantages certain body sizes and shapes give in certain sports as though they are equivalent to male advantage, when they are marginal gains that offer very, very slight advantage. The advantage of a male body over a female one is worth 10 to 40%, depending on the sport. Michael Phelps's big feet put him fractions of a second ahead of his best male competitors, but several seconds ahead of his female ones. It's his male body advantage that is significant, not his big feet.
Worth remembering that it was Harper's campaigning and poor research - on just 8 transwomen athletes, one of which was themselves - that led to the IOC allowing men into the women's category and helped get sports into this mess in the first place.
The sports scientist from the article, Ross Tucker, has an informative Twitter feed.
https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport
This makes no sense. Harper talks about the advantages certain body sizes and shapes give in certain sports as though they are equivalent to male advantage, when they are marginal gains that offer very, very slight advantage. The advantage of a male body over a female one is worth 10 to 40%, depending on the sport. Michael Phelps's big feet put him fractions of a second ahead of his best male competitors, but several seconds ahead of his female ones. It's his male body advantage that is significant, not his big feet.
Worth remembering that it was Harper's campaigning and poor research - on just 8 transwomen athletes, one of which was themselves - that led to the IOC allowing men into the women's category and helped get sports into this mess in the first place.
The sports scientist from the article, Ross Tucker, has an informative Twitter feed.
https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport
Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
@AuroraSaab
Sport, at least at elite and professional levels, is one place that I agree needs some special rules for transwomen.
Sport, at least at elite and professional levels, is one place that I agree needs some special rules for transwomen.
AuroraSaab
Squire
No special rules, just enforce the categories that already exist and are there for a reason, whether it's age, weight, sex, disability, or whatever.
I can't find the link atm but there's a para athlete, swimmer I think, who is considering suing their governing body over the rules which put athletes into categories of disability. On the grounds that some in the category have too much of an advantage over others, as I recall.
I can't even imagine how you begin to weigh say paralysis of a limb as an advantage against a missing limb, but it's interesting that athletes at all levels seek fairness in their sports.
I can't find the link atm but there's a para athlete, swimmer I think, who is considering suing their governing body over the rules which put athletes into categories of disability. On the grounds that some in the category have too much of an advantage over others, as I recall.
I can't even imagine how you begin to weigh say paralysis of a limb as an advantage against a missing limb, but it's interesting that athletes at all levels seek fairness in their sports.
classic33
Me
Michael Phelps just happens to have an abnormal arm span. With most people their height and arm span are closer together.
Also, his hand are larger than someone of a similar height. And he's double jointed. He also has short legs for his height.
A natural advantage see's him producing less than half the lactic acid of other swimmers in similar events.
Also, his hand are larger than someone of a similar height. And he's double jointed. He also has short legs for his height.
A natural advantage see's him producing less than half the lactic acid of other swimmers in similar events.
icowden
Legendary Member
It's quite challenging. The athletes attend to be assessed, but it has been suggested that some athletes sandbag in order to try to get into a category where they are more likely to be able to win.
AuroraSaab
Squire
I've read that too and the suggestion that because it's advantageous to be in lower category some athletes don't volunteer info on improvements in mobility in order to avoid being moved up. I don't know where you'd start trying to draw the line between categories in such a huge range of disabilities.
D
Deleted member 121
Guest
Best left to the experts then and those that have spent a lifetime in sport methinks and not to the ravages of this place which undoubtedly fück everything up.
AndyRM
Elder Goth
It's where we inevitably seem to end up.
I thought the Beeb article I'd linked to was pretty reasonable, but we're back to the same old issues.
AuroraSaab
Squire
👍I'm all for following the actual science in order to have fairness in sport.
D
Deleted member 121
Guest
So that's nobody here. Thank fück for that...
AndyRM
Elder Goth
I didn't know this was a thing, because I am a terrible queer and don't always realise things are happening, but tomorrow is the start of LGBT+ History Month.
https://lgbtplushistorymonth.co.uk/
https://lgbtplushistorymonth.co.uk/
Cirrus
Active Member
Read that link as lgbt plushi story month, which I found somewhat confusing and amusing .
