Gender again. Sorry!

[multitool]

Have you ever considered spending a week as a trans woman, Iain? (obviously you'd be pretending ). Go to work, to the shops, to your kids friend's houses, etc.

How do you think your week would go?
Why do you think that might be?

Do you think you might get a little angry about the abuse? Enough to get a bit pissed off with the people promoting it?

And yes, Minshull is promoting it. She openly refers to TW as paedophiles and deviants.

 

[icowden]

Do you think you might get a little angry about the abuse? Enough to get a bit pissed off with the people promoting it?
And yes, Minshull is promoting it. She openly refers to TW as paedophiles and deviants.

But why does she need a platform in the first place? Isn't that the obvious question?

 

[multitool]

But why does she need a platform in the first place? Isn't that the obvious question?

You are assuming she needs a platform.

Does Tommy Robinson? Does David Icke? Did Hitler?

She's got a case file though...

https://hopenothate.org.uk/case-files-kellie-jay/

 

[icowden]

You are assuming she needs a platform.

No - I'm pointing out that she has taken it upon herself to speak up for women's rights. If it were not for the activists trying to remove them, she would have found something else to do.

Does Tommy Robinson? Does David Icke? Did Hitler?

Remind me which minority groups who were losing hard won rights they were supporting?

She's got a case file though...
https://hopenothate.org.uk/case-files-kellie-jay/

It's not a very interesting one though is it.

 

[multitool]

No - I'm pointing out that she has taken it upon herself to speak up for women's rights. If it were not for the activists trying to remove them, she would have found something else to do.

Remind me which minority groups who were losing hard won rights they were supporting?

Women aren't losing rights. Ask some women

It's not a very interesting one though is it.

Have you got a case file on HopeNotHate?

Me neither.

 

[icowden]

Women aren't losing rights. Ask some women

So why are they protesting that they are being prevented from speaking?
Seems odd to me. Some very intelligent women are pretty sure that women's rights need some protection.
Do you genuinely think they are making it all up?

Have you got a case file on HopeNotHate?
Me neither.

My point is that her case states that she has some views that overlap with known right wing groups, but mostly acknowledges that right wing groups have decided to support her in different ways.

 

[Unkraut]

Clergyman cleared of transphobic comments about another member of the profession.

The complaints procedure weaponised with multiple attempts to get him sacked

Thanks for this, I have followed Brett Murphy's brave decision to leave the C of E due to the increasing apostasy of its hierarchy. I was also aware of the misuse of a measure intended for serious clergy misconduct.

The interesting thing is the complainant, Rachel Mann whom Brett correctly genders as a male based on his worldview, has a website that did contain the following:

Holy God, chuckling wise woman, tender and strange, we bless you.

Christ our Sister, unite us in your holy bleeding.

Birth-Spirit, as you coursed in intimacy through the veins
of Eve and Adam, Hagar and Abraham, Deborah and Lappidoth, Naomi and Ruth, ...

Now removed from his website, but it shows someone who has re-written the faith they are supposed to uphold, and imo in need of help rather than being affirmed. Transitioned from believing in God to in effect believing in a goddess, a very different concept and deeply pagan! An idolater in fact.

haters will always be haters, bigots will always be bigots,

You don't believe people can change then?

religious zealots will always be religious zealots

Nothing wrong in that of itself, depends on the fruit produced. Religious zealotry is not confined to 'religious' people. Ideology can fit the bill too. Like gender ...

they are thick indoctrinated twats

I assume this language means my criticism of Mann above falls within respectable discourse, and is not being too 'judgemental'!!

 

[multitool]

Some very intelligent women are pretty sure that women's rights need some protection.
Do you genuinely think they are making it all up?

Pretty much, yes*

It's a cult.

My point is that her case states that she has some views that overlap with known right wing groups, but mostly acknowledges that right wing groups have decided to support her in different ways.

Oh that's OK then. If you've got some views that overlap with Nazis, it's cool. It's just an overlap.

She's got form before she hit on the anti-trans gravy train for islamophobia.

*with possible exception of some women's sport, although this is largely only happening at a very amateur level , and even then barely at all.

 

[Deleted member 159]

View: https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1776000537076375909?t=bPVAk6MlZKFpsRBhRjO8yg&s=19

 

[AndyRM]

It'd actually be funny if JK Rowling got lifted.

For crimes against being a total rip off merchant. She knows it, but pretends not to be.

#fluidity

 

[monkers]

I assume this language means my criticism of Mann above falls within respectable discourse, and is not being too 'judgemental'!!

It isn't what I had in mind. My point was very general rather than specific to you.

I do often wonder though how people who are otherwise very intelligent indeed, and much more so than me, can still adhere to unproven and unlikely ideology.

It occurred to me as a schoolchild, that while one teacher was saying the universe is infinite, and another was saying that God is everywhere, that either one of them was wrong, or both were wrong; it not being possible that both were correct. Infinity seems a much more likely concept than omni-presence, which is actually rather eery - maybe it inspired Orwell's Big Brother ideas?

 

[farfromtheland]

Ah. there is the possibility that both were right. It depends on the terms of reference. The ideas of god and religion are mostly 'man in the sky' here, but not everywhere.

But as some woman I hope to reply before we get derailed a bit.
(I wrote most of this a little while back but had internet wobblies.)

The existence of trans people does not affect me. Focus on gender difference bothers me rotten, because I reckon that any ideas of what is normal/abnormal there result in people giving me a hard time, up to the point of trying to beat me up and/or my having to leave my vocation to bring up my child.

I do not in any way blame trans people for these things. Obviously we are affected by the same hostile attitudes. If I have to kick over a book display for tiny infants in the public library featuring nothing but girl ballerinas and boy footballers I hope the trans community would support this.

I am unable to kick over a culture which expects women to wear make-up ( yes, this can be required without breaching employment law ) all by myself. Feminism left me out when the likes of Julie Burchill became icons. The ideas of 'good girls' and good boys' start so young and go so deep now that the media are our babysitters. Who is to say that in a genuinely liberated society dysphoria would still be such a big thing?

And how to work for this better world anyway? Small ways? So I don't sell kid's clothes on ebay because I'd have to gender label them... So I try to debate here to find common ground rather than nit-picking... Big ways?

 

[farfromtheland]

Big ways? Well there's the rub.

I think it makes eminent sense to use the singular 'they' pronoun as default. Sounds fine to me.

Ironically I think we need to question and reclaim the culture of childcare. We should be able to raise children together with partners for as much as it takes, and not have to employ less advantaged, mostly female, workers to do it. Instead of making situations where men and women take equal shares and retain their work-life balance feminism has taken a capitalist shortcut on this.

We need to change the gender ratios of Primary School teachers. Return to the way training teachers could be subject specialists at primary as well as secondary level. Get real scientists and musicians back into primary teaching. I have nothing against arts and humanities but they are only part of the picture. I bet more men would choose Primary teaching too, as attitudes are. They and our children would gain.

And, please allow me to be gender critical to this extent. Though gonads are not everything, I value them. I reject the role of big pharma in promoting drug solutions to unhappy young people, mainly because if weird people (like me) are sterilised we all lose.

 

[Ian H]

View: https://twitter.com/DrJaninaRamirez/status/1777206055035936833

 

[matticus]

View: https://twitter.com/DrJaninaRamirez/status/1777206055035936833

I saw that over breakfast. I genuinely can't decide if she's agreeing with JKR or not.
(And if she isn't doing either, why quote JKR? She's welcome to state her own opinion any time!)
🤷‍♂️