Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

It's not being taught as a belief or opinion in some schools though. The objection is to it being taught as fact by outsourced providers and in the materials schools buy.

I've never said belief in the existence of gender identity shouldn't be allowed. The law should rightly acknowledge people's right to believe in the earth being flat or religious souls too. I just don't think they should teach it to kids as a fact not an opinion.

It requires no magical thinking to think that people are free to believe what they wish, even if that belief is that they are no longer their birth sex. The magical thinking is required in accepting it as a fact.

Why should the Gender Recognition Act not be taught in schools? The existence of the act is a fact not a belief.

The 'magical thinking' is pretending that these are not facts.

Instead we have Keegan saying the gender identity is real (agreeing that trans women are women). She says that it's fine to discuss gender reassignment surgeries, but no 'gender ideology'.

I'll at least concede that there's somebody out there even more muddle-headed than you out there; it's just scary that she is the Secretary of State for Education.

 

[icowden]

I'll at least concede that there's somebody out there even more muddle-headed than you out there; it's just scary that she is the Secretary of State for Education.

To be fair, she is on the same level as most of the other cabinet ministers...

 

[monkers]

To be fair, she is on the same level as most of the other cabinet ministers...

Oh goodness, you managed to make it even worse!

 

[AndyRM]

Magical thinking.

F*ck my actual life.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Why should the Gender Recognition Act not be taught in schools? The existence of the act is a fact not a belief.

What would be it's relevance in Personal and Social Education? They don't teach the Equality Act either.

The 'magical thinking' is pretending that these are not facts.

The existence of the GRA is a fact. Nobody has said it isn't. More than 2 sexes and the concept of gender identity are beliefs/opinions. The fact that such beliefs are (rightly) protected in law doesn't make them true, anymore than Christian beliefs being protected in law makes them true.

 

[monkers]

What would be it's relevance in Personal and Social Education? They don't teach the Equality Act either.


The existence of the GRA is a fact. Nobody has said it isn't. More than 2 sexes and the concept of gender identity are beliefs/opinions. The fact that such beliefs are (rightly) protected in law doesn't make them true, anymore than Christian beliefs being protected in law makes them true.

The problem is that there is no definition of sex that applies to all people. Are you saying that people who do not meet your criteria for sex are not people? I've linked you to a number of expert biologists who say that it just isn't that simple. None of that says that there are more than two sexes. Most people don't even know their own sex because we don't test the chromosomes of every person. The simple view is for the simple mind. Nature loves to diversify, yet there are some of you who just hate diversity. Go figure.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Two sexes, with variation within. Intersex (dsd) people are still either male or female. It's rather insulting of you to suggest that they aren't.

Most people don't even know their own sex because we don't test the chromosomes of every person.

And yet everybody knows that had both a mum and a dad. People with dsds are 0.02% of the population so actually most people do know their sex. Chromosome analysis not required.

 

[monkers]

 

[monkers]

Two sexes, with variation within. Intersex (dsd) people are still either male or female. It's rather insulting of you to suggest that they aren't.



And yet everybody knows that had both a mum and a dad. People with dsds are 0.02% of the population so actually most people do know their sex. Chromosome analysis not required.

This everyone has a mum and a dad nonsense is just misdirection.

Reproductive sex is binary. Other aspects of sex are not. Everybody has a mum and dad because they were among the majority of people capable of reproduction - but not everybody is, and not everybody knows if they ever were or not - for example, I know I am not now, but I don't know if I ever was. I knew I didn't want children of my own (for my own reasons).

Do you know what a woman is? Answer is 'no'. You have no more idea than Keir Starmer or Rishi Sunak, because none of you have the gender identity of a woman. There's more to being a woman than having two tits and a fanny.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Most people don't even know their own sex

Really?

 

[AuroraSaab]

What do you imagine this survey proves exactly?

You'd need a more specific question to be sure, but it reads that a lot of people think kids should be taught that some people don't identify with their birth sex. I don't see a problem with schools saying that to children at an appropriate age.

Reproductive sex is binary. Other aspects of sex are not.

What other aspects? You can't mean secondary sexual characteristics, like breasts or facial hair? They aren't your sex.

Everybody has a mum and dad because they were among the majority of people capable of reproduction

No, everybody had a mum and dad because humans have only 2 reproductive pathways.

There's more to being a woman than having two tits and a fanny.

It's an embodied experience; of course it doesn't require specific body parts. It simply requires being born female.

Funny how so many men go out of their way to acquire those body parts you list even though you admit it doesn't make you a woman.

Tell us more about how none of us know what sex we are. I find that absolutely fascinating.
What a stroke of luck for those of us who wanted children that one of us turned out to be the sex that makes the big gametes and the other one turned out to be the one who made the small gametes. I suppose none of us really knew our sex until one of us got pregnant.

 

[monkers]

Really?

Yup. What are your chromosomes? I presume mine are XX, but not having had them tested, I can't say for sure.

 

[monkers]

No, everybody had a mum and dad because humans have only 2 reproductive pathways.

One pathway, the meeting of egg and sperm. But whatever, you can't argue there are only two sexes on the basis of this. And that's not me saying there are more than two sexes, just that your definitions don't serve to prove your point.

Reproductive sex is binary, but otherwise there are variations.

 

[monkers]

What other aspects? You can't mean secondary sexual characteristics, like breasts or facial hair? They aren't your sex.

Chromosomes. Hormones.

 

[monkers]

It's an embodied experience; of course it doesn't require specific body parts. It simply requires being born female.

That's what you believe. All self-knowledge stems from the brain, not the genitals. Shania Twain sang that she feels like a women. Was she using her head or her hands?