Gender again. Sorry!

[Stevo 666]

 

[CXRAndy]

You can ask them

I would find that highly offensive

And that's what got us into this stupid situation in the first place

Offence is taken, not given by asking a perfectly legitimate question.

Women can now without fear of some weirdos emotional objection ask what are you doing here and asking them to leave if they don't belong

 

[AuroraSaab]

No, it was yourself that introduced the toilets, later using the disabled to try to prove your points. And yourself who said you'd be willing to stand outside them and "police" who could use them.

Take it up with Steve. He introduced the disabled toilets solution. You just throw bs out without any evidence as usual.

I've been seen, and examined by female doctors. On what some might consider to be a male only examination. Never once was the thought given to demanding that the doctors doing the examinations, and explanations, be male.

Men have a right to single sex care too. You could have asked and they would have tried to accommodate you. That you can't see why a woman might object to intimate examination from a male, whereas most men are happy with female doctors and nurses, shows you really have no clue what the issues are.

 

[monkers]

People here seem to forget, that the right to privacy is a convention right. Asking a person what their disability is or what they have in their knickers, or what their chromosomes are (how can we always know?), or even what sex is stated on your birth certificate are all breaches of the fundamental right to privacy.

Essentially the fundamental convention rights and aligned domestic law in statute tells us to mind our own business. After being told by a person to ''mind your own business'' repeated questioning initiates potential charges of harassment.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I would find that highly offensive, then having to describe the nature and impact and limitations of my disability.

Nobody's asking for your life history, just a brief word. The alternative is you let anybody use the disabled facilities because staff daren't ask. The result of that will be that eventually everyone regards disabled facilities as fair game and those facilities whether it's toilets, parking spaces, seats on buses, whatever, will no longer be available for disabled use. They'll be full of able bodied people who can do what the like because they know nobody is going to ask.

You think standing in a public space explaining the nature of your disability is something acceptable? I am truly flabbergast.

I think staff politely saying 'I'm afraid this seat/facility/space is for disabled people only' is acceptable. You saying, 'I know, I do have a disability, it's xxxxx, or I need the loo more often, or even it's an unseen one..' isn't that intrusive.

Honestly, this forum. Men in women's prisons doesn't spark any outrage whatsoever. Asking if someone should be parking in a disabled spot? Flabbergasting.

It just shows most men really have no idea about women's lives.

 

[AuroraSaab]

People here seem to forget, that the right to privacy is a convention right.

Nebulous UN declarations on privacy don't trump domestic laws.

It's possible to exclude men from women's spaces, straight people from gay ones, and able bodied people from disabled ones. Pretending it isn't legal or practical when it has been done for years is straw clutching; it's desperation because the law has been clarified and service providers now know where they stand and can act accordingly.

 

[Ian H]

The Supreme court has agreed TiMs are not women

It hasn't.

Ruling does not diminish transgender women’s protections against direct discrimination, says supreme court

 

[monkers]

Nebulous UN declarations on privacy don't trump domestic laws.

It's possible to exclude men from women's spaces, straight people from gay ones, and able bodied people from disabled ones. Pretending it isn't legal or practical when it has been done for years is straw clutching; it's desperation because the law has been clarified and service providers now know where they stand and can act accordingly.

European Convention Rights flow from the UN. Seriously any schoolgirl knows that. European Convention Rights have to be respected because the UK is not just signed up them, but the author of them.

But as usual, anything that contradicts the protected philosophical beliefs of bigots is deemed worthless by bigots.

 

[mickle]

Yes, it was not long after I joined the other place, and despite having said early on there that I was a gay woman, that you decided that I MUST be trans and must be attacked because I spoke trans affirmatively on that site.

This is how your band of buddies spent the day yesterday TERFING in other places - doing exactly to other cis women as you did to me.

I well remember from then what a piece of shoot you are, and now see you haven't changed.

https://www.thecanary.co/opinion/2025/04/17/what-is-a-woman/

'Attacked'? Always with the transperbole. And, like clockwork, when you run out of cogent argument you resort to name calling.

 

[icowden]

Nobody's asking for your life history, just a brief word. The alternative is you let anybody use the disabled facilities because staff daren't ask. The result of that will be that eventually everyone regards disabled facilities as fair game and those facilities whether it's toilets, parking spaces, seats on buses, whatever, will no longer be available for disabled use. They'll be full of able bodied people who can do what the like because they know nobody is going to ask.

Nope. Human nature steps in. Yes, there will be some people who aren't disabled who use the disabled loo. But most people will honour the system. Despite what we see in politics, most people are reasonably honest.

I think staff politely saying 'I'm afraid this seat/facility/space is for disabled people only' is acceptable. You saying, 'I know, I do have a disability, it's xxxxx, or I need the loo more often, or even it's an unseen one..' isn't that intrusive.

It's more intrusive than you think. Many people with hidden disability are still trying to come to terms with it. A more likely response would be f*ck off you nosy bastard.

 

[Ian H]

Nope. Human nature steps in. Yes, there will be some people who aren't disabled who use the disabled loo. But most people will honour the system. Despite what we see in politics, most people are reasonably honest.


It's more intrusive than you think. Many people with hidden disability are still trying to come to terms with it. A more likely response would be f*ck off you nosy bastard.

The convention in this country is that you don't ask. On the other hand most public disabled loos are radar key locked. I have let an apparently able-bodied woman into a disabled loo, because the other facilities were locked (at an unmanned railway station).

 

[AuroraSaab]

European Convention Rights flow from the UN. Seriously any schoolgirl knows that. European Convention Rights have to be respected because the UK is not just signed up them, but the author of them.

But as usual, anything that contradicts the protected philosophical beliefs of bigots is deemed worthless by bigots.

The UN declaration on human rights isn't legally binding in the UK. Even if it was you'd have a hard time convincing courts that a man's nebulously stated right to privacy over being asked his sex trumps a woman's right to privacy over not having him in the changing room with her.

But most people will honour the system. Despite what we see in politics, most people are reasonably honest.

Unfortunately men don't honour the system and respect single sex spaces in the way (most) people honour the disabled one. Part of what makes people honour any trust system is knowing they might be challenged. If we do away with challenging people because it's thought rude then people will take advantage.

This idea that it's rude for women to address men who cross boundaries is part of why we are in this mess.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The convention in this country is that you don't ask. On the other hand most public disabled loos are radar key locked.

Why do you think they needed to be locked? Because they were being used by able bodied people or/and for drug taking, removing that facility from people who needed it. So now disabled people have to ask for a key instead of society reinforcing the social contract that you don't use them if you're able bodied. Not very progressive.

 

[monkers]

'Attacked'? Always with the transperbole. And, like clockwork, when you run out of cogent argument you resort to name calling.

Yes you made repeated verbal attacks on me. This is what social media enables. We are told by site owners of social media to hide behind avatars. This protects site owners, but it also protects perpetrators, people like you who harass people on social media.

It is perfectly legitimate to insult people who harass, especially as their is no other available recourse.

And of course, your bigotry makes you blind to the reality. Lesbian women are being harassed on the basis of 'you MUST be trans'. Tall women are being harassed on the basis of 'you MUST be trans'. Women who have beaten records in sport are 'transvestigated' with photographs of them and smears expressed in vile cess pits like Mumsnet. Any cis woman who is trans supportive MUST be trans and having sex with their dog.

The harassment of cis women by cis men on the basis that being trans supportive means they MUST be trans, is beyond the pale, and farking ridiculous by obsessives like you. 'A piece of shoot' response is hardly going too far. Who the fark do you people think you are?

And just to remind other readers of the thread, I've been warning about these behaviours - men with obsessions using their faux arguments about protecting women and girls, and in the process harassing women and girls.

 

[CXRAndy]

It hasn't.

Yes it has it has clarified only females with reproductive organs are properly described as women.

Not men who self I'd or those with a piece of paper stating they are female. Neither are female or women in the eyes of the law now.


They can personally call themselves whatever they like. However when confronted with trying to access any female only space/facilities they are men in the eyes of the law.