Gender again. Sorry!

[AndyRM]

Your defence of the indefensible is absolutely fycking astonishing to me.

Yes, because that's exactly what I've done. Get a grip.

 

[AndyRM]

We don't allow people to voluntarily have other non essential surgery, never mind encourage it as a cure for mental health issues. I would actually dispute that it's 'voluntary' in the sense that these kids and young people are fed a lie that it will cure their unhappiness and, in the US at least, are approved for surgery with little exploration of alternative treatments.

Unfortunately, those surgeons responsible will simply fade away quietly because US laws and the statute of limitations mean it's very difficult to hold them to account.

I would dispute that it's "encouraged".

It's anecdotal I know, but nobody I know has undertaken any major transitional surgery lightly.

 

[CXRAndy]

They are coerced by medical staff captured by this ideology.

To do this to vulnerable kids is grotesque to say the least

 

[icowden]

It's anecdotal I know, but nobody I know has undertaken any major transitional surgery lightly.

The contentious bit is whether it should be offered at all. If someone asks to have a healthy leg amputated that request will not be completed. The person will be referred for mental health support. Many would argue that surgical alteration of the body to support the concept of gender transition is no different.

The argument for the difference in treatment is usually about suicidal ideation, but I remain unconvinced that these operations should be offered. I'm still on the side of the fence that says we should be treating gender dysphoria as a mental illness rather than a natural biological state of being.

That said, I'm very much aware that being gay used to be treated as a mental illness whereas we now know it is a natural state of being. It requires no treatment however, which is the key difference. Who you are as you is great, whoever you are and whatever you like. Once it starts requiring surgery and medication, it isn't about you being you anymore. It's about you *not* being you IMHO.

 

[AndyRM]

The contentious bit is whether it should be offered at all. If someone asks to have a healthy leg amputated that request will not be completed. The person will be referred for mental health support. Many would argue that surgical alteration of the body to support the concept of gender transition is no different.

The argument for the difference in treatment is usually about suicidal ideation, but I remain unconvinced that these operations should be offered. I'm still on the side of the fence that says we should be treating gender dysphoria as a mental illness rather than a natural biological state of being.

That said, I'm very much aware that being gay used to be treated as a mental illness whereas we now know it is a natural state of being. It requires no treatment however, which is the key difference. Who you are as you is great, whoever you are and whatever you like. Once it starts requiring surgery and medication, it isn't about you being you anymore. It's about you *not* being you IMHO.

Broadly, I agree with this.

 

[classic33]

We don't allow people to voluntarily have other non essential surgery, never mind encourage it as a cure for mental health issues. I would actually dispute that it's 'voluntary' in the sense that these kids and young people are fed a lie that it will cure their unhappiness and, in the US at least, are approved for surgery with little exploration of alternative treatments.

Unfortunately, those surgeons responsible will simply fade away quietly because US laws and the statute of limitations mean it's very difficult to hold them to account.

Already been mentioned, two years ago.

Already been done.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12448590/

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/02/i-chose-to-amputate-own-leg-erez-avramov

The there's liposuction on the NHS.

Seems it is, however "Liposuction carried out for cosmetic reasons is not normally available on the NHS."
https://www.nhs.uk/tests-and-treatments/cosmetic-procedures/cosmetic-surgery/liposuction/#:~:text=Liposuction carried out for cosmetic,in the arms and legs

And from near the bottom of that page
"Occasionally, people who have liposuction find the desired effect was not achieved and feel they need another operation."

And now "big pharma" are getting in on the latest idea, weight loss medication.
Adverts appear aimed at women at present.

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/SexMattersOrg/status/1942614661460877516?t=payX20Ijdso6v9ii40V4ag&s=19

 

[icowden]

And now "big pharma" are getting in on the latest idea, weight loss medication.
Adverts appear aimed at women at present.

But prescriptions are aimed at people with significant obesity and multiple co-morbidities as it will help them to reduce weight and thus the potential health burden on the NHS. On prescription, it is a medical treatment, not a vanity treatment.

 

[classic33]

But prescriptions are aimed at people with significant obesity and multiple co-morbidities as it will help them to reduce weight and thus the potential health burden on the NHS. On prescription, it is a medical treatment, not a vanity treatment.

They're available without prescription, legally in the UK, and being marketed as such.
They've been available via the internet for a few years, and I doubt the sellers ever asked for a prescription.

 

[icowden]

They're available without prescription, legally in the UK

So is a saw and tourniquet.

For medical use they are prescribed by a doctor, where they are medically useful.