Gulf War No.37: Iranistan

[First Aspect]

I can’t imagine that all of this military hardware flying and sailing around is doing much to alleviate Climate Change ?

Just wait until the nuclear winter.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Just wait until the nuclear winter.

And I was just getting my garden ready for spring/summer.

 

[Pblakeney]

I can’t imagine that all of this military hardware flying and sailing around is doing much to alleviate Climate Change ?

Donnie doesn't think it exists, far less care.
"Burn baby, burn!"

 

[AuroraSaab]

After the September 11th attacks Iran helped organise the support of the Northern Alliance against the Taliban.

Yes, the Iranian regime act in their own interests. They didn't want the Taliban at their door anymore than anyone else did. No surprise.

By all of those measures Saudi Arabia is far worse than Iran, but we are perfectly happy to look the other way.

Saudi are terrible. They are not in the same league as Iran. They didn't gas 700 schoolgirls, they don't routinely execute raped girls, they don't sanction marriage and sex with girls from age 9.

 

[Pblakeney]

Saudi are terrible. They are not in the same league as Iran. They didn't gas 700 schoolgirls, they don't routinely execute raped girls, they don't sanction marriage and sex with girls from age 9.

Are we discussing Saudi, Iran, or the Epstein class?

 

[Beebo]

Just seen the video of the ship getting torpedoed. Total devastation.
Any Iranian ship not currently in port must now be considered a sitting target. And the US subs will be waiting for any ships to leave or return to port.

 

[Pblakeney]

I think Hegseth needs a history lesson. A probable excuse is that USAnians only get US history.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said a U.S. submarine torpedoed and sank an Iranian warship in the Indian Ocean, claiming Iran’s navy has been largely “decimated” and calling it the first enemy ship sunk by torpedo since World War II.

 

[Beebo]

I think Hegseth needs a history lesson. A probable excuse is that USAnians only get US history.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said a U.S. submarine torpedoed and sank an Iranian warship in the Indian Ocean, claiming Iran’s navy has been largely “decimated” and calling it the first enemy ship sunk by torpedo since World War II.

The British couldn’t sink a ship as they were well away from the front line because USA were doing all the heavy lifting in Argentina.

Because USA never declines a request for help.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Are we discussing Saudi, Iran, or the Epstein class?

Are you suggesting all 3 are morally equivalent?
Or are you just making a joke?

 

[Pblakeney]

Are you suggesting all 3 are morally equivalent?
Or are you just making a joke?

I'm making the point that the world is a horrible place and atrocities happen closer to home (including some of those that you listed) than we'd like to admit. As an extension of this, the solution will never be bombs.

 

[All uphill]

Wow. Echos of Belgrano spring to mind.
What threat was it offering at the time?

So last century.

We should rely on the hunch Donny had that the vessel might offer a threat at some time in the future.

 

[PurplePenguin]

After the September 11th attacks Iran helped organise the support of the Northern Alliance against the Taliban. Khatami, who was president at the time, even went as far as saying that it was for the Palestinians and Israel to come to an agreement about the future of Palestine. It looked for a moment that things might move in a de-scalation direction, and then Bush II came out with the Axis of evil shït and any progress was scuppered. The hardliners said what's the point making the effort if we can't trust the other side to keep its side of the bargain.

Then Rouhani manages the nuclear agreement with Obama and Trump fücks it up again. Rinse and repeat, and we are where we are.

I'm grateful for your contributions to this thread. I don't have the energy.

A few random examples from the late 90s: Iran accommodated the most refugees in the world, Iran made 80% of the world's drug busts by volume, Iran opposed the Taliban, Kurds received better treatment in Iran than in Iraq or Turkey, Christians could drink alcohol, women were present in a lot of society, the hardline were under considerable pressure to reform.

As a country it is completely incomparable to its neighbours to the east (Pakistan and Afghanistan) or in the ME.

 

[All uphill]

The Iranian regime continued to execute political opponents, demonstrators, and Irananians of faiths other than fundamentalist Islam throughout the 1990's. They continued to execute girls and women who had been raped or accused of transgression of the morality laws, and still do. They have never been 'not the bad guy'.

I hope for a regime that is less brutal, but think it unlikely. The previous regime under the Shah was also brutal.

In the situation set up by Trump, any group wanting power will understand the need for more brutality to gain and hold that power.

I think any dream of a pluralist, peaceful society in Iran is just that - a dream.

 

[PurplePenguin]

Why is Iran run by a regime, but, say, China is not? I get that it is not the Trump regime yet, because in theory there is still democracy, but I never hear of the Xi regime or Putin regime.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I'm making the point that the world is a horrible place and atrocities happen closer to home (including some of those that you listed) than we'd like to admit. As an extension of this, the solution will never be bombs.

Sometimes the solution really is bombs (or trebuchets/warships/armies/ invasion/other armament of choice) though isn't it? Whether it is the long term solution to Iran's oppressive regime is a different question.

A few random examples from the late 90s: Iran accommodated the most refugees in the world, Iran made 80% of the world's drug busts by volume, Iran opposed the Taliban, Kurds received better treatment in Iran than in Iraq or Turkey, Christians could drink alcohol, women were present in a lot of society, the hardline were under considerable pressure to reform.

As a country it is completely incomparable to its neighbours to the east (Pakistan and Afghanistan) or in the ME.

'It's better than Afghanistan' is not really selling it to me.