Inheritance Tax

[slowmotion]

We can all play at this belligerent and disingenuous style of non-argument, if that's the way you want it. Supposing half a million nicker lands in your lap not through any work or merit, but because your rich dad just kicked the bucket, should the State seek to mitigate the unfair advantage you have over around 93% of your peers?

I wasn't being belligerent or disingenuous. I asked a simple question. If somebody earns their own money in their lifetime, does the State have a moral right to trouser it when he dies?

I guess a simple YES or NO answer will put this to bed.

 

[newfhouse]

I wasn't being belligerent or disingenuous. I asked a simple question. If somebody earns their own money in their lifetime, does the State have a moral right to trouser it when he dies?

I guess a simple YES or NO answer will put this to bed.

The recipient is taxed, not the dead person. Yes, it’s fair in principle to tax them. Rates and allowances are details that we could reasonably debate if we could be bothered.

 

[theclaud]

I wasn't being belligerent or disingenuous. I asked a simple question. If somebody earns their own money in their lifetime, does the State have a moral right to trouser it when he dies?

I guess a simple YES or NO answer will put this to bed.

None of this is what happens. Inheritance is entirely unearned income. Tax on unearned income is a good thing.

 

[BoldonLad]

We can all play at this belligerent and disingenuous style of non-argument, if that's the way you want it. Supposing half a million nicker lands in your lap not through any work or merit, but because your rich dad just kicked the bucket, should the State seek to mitigate the unfair advantage you have over around 93% of your peers?

Life is full of “unfairness”, should the state attempt to mitigate all of it? How about disfigurement for the too attractive, brain surgery for the too clever,……

 

[Deleted member 121]

Life is full of “unfairness”, should the state attempt to mitigate all of it? How about disfigurement for the too attractive, brain surgery for the too clever,……

There's no danger of any of them here... Any more realistic examples?

 

[theclaud]

brain surgery for the too clever,……

I wouldn't worry about that if I were you.

 

[Beebo]

I wasn't being belligerent or disingenuous. I asked a simple question. If somebody earns their own money in their lifetime, does the State have a moral right to trouser it when he dies?

I guess a simple YES or NO answer will put this to bed.

Morally I’d have a problem with 100% IHT.
It would be a terrible situation if you could hand nothing down to the next generation. And I doubt anyone on here is advocating that.
But morally there should also be a middle ground.
the worst case scenario under our current system is that you still get to hand at least 60% to who ever you wish.
Plus you can gift as much as you want if you live for 7 years.
Anyone sensible with plenty of cash in the bank will start gifting it away in their 70s.
That’s not too bad a deal IMO.

 

[Electric_Andy]

None of this is what happens. Inheritance is entirely unearned income. Tax on unearned income is a good thing.

I'd argue that some/lots of inheritance is partially earned by the inheritor. I helped out on the farm, unpaid, for years. I kept a good relationship with my family such that they wanted to leave their estate to their kids, It's not hard graft, but it is earned in one respect

 

[theclaud]

I'd argue that some/lots of inheritance is partially earned by the inheritor. I helped out on the farm, unpaid, for years. I kept a good relationship with my family such that they wanted to leave their estate to their kids, It's not hard graft, but it is earned in one respect

I'm sure you would. It's extremely difficult to shake the sense of entitlement of the propertied classes and its associated ideologies of lineage, nuclear family and the bootstrap myth, and since it's one of the main things keeping the Tories in power for centuries, it makes sense that they'd want to throw another log on the fire at this moment.

 

[Ian H]

I'd argue that some/lots of inheritance is partially earned by the inheritor. I helped out on the farm, unpaid, for years. I kept a good relationship with my family such that they wanted to leave their estate to their kids, It's not hard graft, but it is earned in one respect

A counter-argument is that lots of people look after ageing parents, with no expectation of reward because there's no estate to hand on.

 

[Beebo]

The counter-argument is that lots of people look after ageing parents, with no expectation of reward because there's no estate to hand on.

Exactly right.
I can give you my wife’s sob story.
Her mum is in a carehome with dementia.
She visits twice a week.
The family house has been sold to pay for care. she has less than £50k left in the bank and care fees are £6k per month.
So by Christmas she will be below the final threshold and the entire estate from her mum and dad will be blown on care costs. And she will inherit nothing.
So IHT is one thing but care costs have wiped out an entire estate that wasn’t even over the IHT cap. How fair is that?

 

[PK99]

I doubt old Moggy will fall foul of Inheritance Tax, he will no doubt have advice and the means to avoid it, in a similar way to the Miliband's.

As did the erstwhile Viscount Stansgate

 

[PK99]

The recipient is taxed, not the dead person. Yes, it’s fair in principle to tax them. Rates and allowances are details that we could reasonably debate if we could be bothered.

Are you sure?

The estate of the deceased is taxed not the recipient.

 

[newfhouse]

Are you sure?

The estate of the deceased is taxed not the recipient.

Semantics, schemantics. The tax is not payable during life and the recipients ultimately retain the value of the inheritance less tax. If they can’t afford to pay by other means they will usually sell the property and remit to HMRC within six months. That feels like the recipients paying the tax to me. Either way, the concept of a tax on unearned income still seems reasonable.

 

[All uphill]

I don't feel my children have any automatic right to the wealth I have managed to accumulate during my life.

That wealth was accumulated by my hard work, and also as a result of the free education I received, the roads, health care system and from living in a time of peace with rule of law.

I'm happy to pay for those things, and it's convenient to defer some of the payment until after my death.

I have lived in a country where none of those things were a given, and I much prefer to live here.