Israel / Palestine

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monkers

Legendary Member
Yugoslavia? Cyprus? Czechoslovakia? The former USSR?

Tensions are rising again in the former Yugoslavia with some recent Serbian sabre rattling.

Cyprus is still contested. Greece being members of the EU have clearly stated that Turkey should not accede to the EU. France agrees.

Ukraine was within the former USSR.

The former Czechoslovakia looks like the best example. I don't pretend to know the politics of that arrangement, but it does looks peaceful now.
 
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monkers

Legendary Member
If only it would work like that graph...

First point, your graph assumes nukes are the all powerful weapons that kill everything, that is not true, they will cause a lot of suffering human death toll etc. But they are not so succesfull against objects, bunkers etc.
Second point that means the ''we retaliate, everybody dies'' claim isn't right either, everyone that can shelter can survive those who can receive treatment and are outside of the epicentre, will partly survive too.
Thirdly the biggest issue with nukes is their long term damage and the lack of knowledge thereoff yes we know what the bomb on Japan did but since lots has changed, so it isn't as clear cut.


I agree with you that in an ideal world we would have never made nuclear weapons, but we crossed that line, assuming that decommission them and hope that we don't have them is enough of an deterrent for evil regimes is foolish.

I also agree with on on the principle of the UN and security council, i just don't think every department of the UN is lead by thev right people(like the UNRWA for example)
The security council is indeed not really working but i don;t think removing the veto would change anything other then countries leaving the UN all together if they can't get their way.

It's not a graph, it's a flowchart. It isn't my flowchart, I just copied it (shhh, it's copyright).

Challenging elements of the language doesn't destroy it's logic.
 

multitool

Guest
Tensions are rising again in the former Yugoslavia with some recent Serbian sabre rattling.

Cyprus is still contested. Greece being members of the EU have clearly stated that Turkey should not accede to the EU. France agrees.

Ukraine was within the former USSR.

The former Czechoslovakia looks like the best example. I don't pretend to know the politics of that arrangement, but it does looks peaceful now.

I'm thinking more of the separation to avoid, end of freeze conflict. All those examples are, relatively speaking, successful. I suppose with the USSR there's Ukraine, Georgia and Chechnya, and a host of other small wars, but nothing like the horror of the partition of India.

By the way, I forgot to include Bangladesh.
 

monkers

Legendary Member
I'm thinking more of the separation to avoid, end of freeze conflict. All those examples are, relatively speaking, successful. I suppose with the USSR there's Ukraine, Georgia and Chechnya, and a host of other small wars, but nothing like the horror of the partition of India.

By the way, I forgot to include Bangladesh.

Fair enough. The press were reporting political instability and unrest in Bangladesh as recently as last month.
 
It's not a graph, it's a flowchart. It isn't my flowchart, I just copied it (shhh, it's copyright).

Challenging elements of the language doesn't destroy it's logic.
Yeah, i shouldn't have used ''your flowchart'' i should have used something like the flowchart you quoted.(Did knew it was called a flowchart just couldn't find the word, so that why i opted for graph)

I understand that challaneging the language doesn't change the logic, and i would find it great if that logic would work. But sadly i beleive that that logic didn't work and if countries would stop either stocking nukes (like the Netherlands unofficially) or discommision them altogether it's only a matter of time before some country would walk all over us because we can't do anything anyway.
Which we also see on the conflicts that do happen in this world none of them are on/in Nato countries. Bash the US all you like their constant obsession with showing how powerfull they are does have an effect.
 

monkers

Legendary Member
Yeah, i shouldn't have used ''your flowchart'' i should have used something like the flowchart you quoted.(Did knew it was called a flowchart just couldn't find the word, so that why i opted for graph)

I understand that challaneging the language doesn't change the logic, and i would find it great if that logic would work. But sadly i beleive that that logic didn't work and if countries would stop either stocking nukes (like the Netherlands unofficially) or discommision them altogether it's only a matter of time before some country would walk all over us because we can't do anything anyway.
Which we also see on the conflicts that do happen in this world none of them are on/in Nato countries. Bash the US all you like their constant obsession with showing how powerfull they are does have an effect.

An apology, despite your username I managed to momentarily forget that you use English as a second language.

Did I bash the US, or did I just name them as one of the five permanent members of the security council?

You don't like the flowchart? Oh well.
 
Solidarity.

IMG_4160.jpeg
 
An apology, despite your username I managed to momentarily forget that you use English as a second language.

Did I bash the US, or did I just name them as one of the five permanent members of the security council?

You don't like the flowchart? Oh well.

I really don't care who you chose to bash, my point is simply that i don't agree that the flowchart would work that way.
It assumes too much that if you assume an deterrent isn't needed because there is no intention to use them, is the same as having no deterrent at all.


But if Nato would have no nukes placed across it's members,(note this is an ''public secret'' so there are no official sources confirming it apart from some politicians every so much years demanding they should be removed) whether it's the US storing them spread over Europe or Nato countries with their own arsenal, countries like Russia would feel far more powerful threatening with them. But the only country calling for their own demise by launching nukes are Russia, Iran etc. Because if they launch one there are quite a few more positions from which they can expect a response. apart from the fact that there also is a difference between a launch and a hit.
Putin was not without Reason angry the US (installed)(or wanted too install)(1) their (part of) their missile shield in Poland.

(1)Can't remember if they actually build it
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
China on the USA veto at the UN...hard to disagree.

"Condoning the continuation of fighting while claiming to care about the lives and safety of people in Gaza is self-contradictory.

Condoning the continuation of fighting while advocating for the prevention of spillover effects of the conflict is self-deceiving.

Condoning the continuation of fighting while making reference to the protection of women, children and human rights is hypocritical.

All these once again show us what double standards are."
 
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