Israel / Palestine

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AuroraSaab

Pharaoh
This issue is that West Midlands Police neglected to mention that this was also a factor and instead blamed visiting fans alone. Oh and presenting an official report that used AI sources that invented a fictitious match to justify banning those fans.

PurplePenguin said:
..... however, in addition to all the Villa fans, the police would have had to deal with protestors who believe that Israeli teams should not be participating and the thoroughly pleasant Maccabi fans.
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I do feel a bit sorry for the CC. He seems to be regarded as having done a good job in WMP and relied on the information he was given as being factually correct. It put him in the position of making a decision based on misleading information.

"Claims including the number of police officers deployed, links between fans and the Israeli Defence Forces, the targeting of Muslim communities, the mass tearing down of Palestinian flags, attacks on police officers and on taxi drivers were all either exaggerated or simply untrue."

https://news.sky.com/story/home-sec...er-maccabi-tel-aviv-football-fan-ban-13493637
 
Pross

Pross

Über Member
Had this decision been made for fans of Galatasaray or Red Star Belgrade no-one would have batted an eyelid and would have just accepted it as the police's decision. Because the team are Israeli there is uproar and the decision is anti-Semitic. It's ludicrous and I'm amazed sensible people are even questioning the decision.
 
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AuroraSaab

Pharaoh
It wouldn't have been open to the allegation that WMP caved in to pressure from activists and communities to ban the match if it had been those clubs though. It's not that the decision was antisemitic; it's that it's essentially a hecklers veto again.
 
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AuroraSaab

Pharaoh
Wasn't that abandoned because of violent clashes between opposing supporters? That's different to police calling off a match after activists demanded it and blaming travelling supporters alone for the decision. It's important that the police are transparent about decision making because the problem wasn't Maccabi fans alone.
 
PurplePenguin

PurplePenguin

Well-Known Member
AuroraSaab said:
Wasn't that abandoned because of violent clashes between opposing supporters? That's different to police calling off a match after activists demanded it and blaming travelling supporters alone for the decision. It's important that the police are transparent about decision making because the problem wasn't Maccabi fans alone.
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It sounds like you would have preferred a better worded report.
 
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AuroraSaab

Pharaoh
I'd prefer that the police are transparent about decision making. I don't think antisemitism was involved in the decision. I do think WMP found it convenient to blame Maccabi fans alone rather than acknowledge that other factors were involved. There's a discussion to be had about how much those other factors should affect policing decisions. By sweeping those factors under the carpet WMP prevented that discussion from taking place in this instance. Till it all blew up in their faces, obviously.
 
laurentian

laurentian

Regular
AuroraSaab said:
Wasn't that abandoned because of violent clashes between opposing supporters? That's different to police calling off a match after activists demanded it and blaming travelling supporters alone for the decision. It's important that the police are transparent about decision making because the problem wasn't Maccabi fans alone.
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Yes it was . . . "a danger to life" being the reason. Given the very recent history (as per link, again, 2/3 weeks beforehand) and the obvious potential for confrontation on non-football grounds, the banning of Maccabi fans doesn't seem like a wholly unreasonable measure per se (to me). It seems that the WMP CC was damned if he did and damned if he didn't to be honest. There were three possible outcomes:

1) Maccabi fans attend and no violence (including the unlikely outcome that there wasn't even violence/unrest from protesters around the ground or transport routes).
2) Maccabi fans attend and there's carnage
3) Maccabi fans don't attend, people PO'd but no violence.

I think, on balance, if I were the CC, I'd choose (3) regardless of semantics surrounding the reason.
 
Pblakeney

Pblakeney

Guru
laurentian said:
Yes it was . . . "a danger to life" being the reason. Given the very recent history (as per link, again, 2/3 weeks beforehand) and the obvious potential for confrontation on non-football grounds, the banning of Maccabi fans doesn't seem like a wholly unreasonable measure per se (to me). It seems that the WMP CC was damned if he did and damned if he didn't to be honest. There were three possible outcomes:

1) Maccabi fans attend and no violence (including the unlikely outcome that there wasn't even violence/unrest from protesters around the ground or transport routes).
2) Maccabi fans attend and there's carnage
3) Maccabi fans don't attend, people PO'd but no violence.

I think, on balance, if I were the CC, I'd choose (3) regardless of semantics surrounding the reason.
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We don't need any anti-semantics on here. 😉
 
Pross

Pross

Über Member
AuroraSaab said:
I'd prefer that the police are transparent about decision making. I don't think antisemitism was involved in the decision. I do think WMP found it convenient to blame Maccabi fans alone rather than acknowledge that other factors were involved. There's a discussion to be had about how much those other factors should affect policing decisions. By sweeping those factors under the carpet WMP prevented that discussion from taking place in this instance. Till it all blew up in their faces, obviously.
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Pro Palestine protests tend to be peaceful. The main issue here would have been the Maccabi fans taking exception to the protests rather than the protests themselves.
 
Pblakeney

Pblakeney

Guru
What is apparently being missed from Laurentian's post is that the Maccabi fans are quite happy to fight anyone, including fellow jews.
It doesn't have to be about religion, although that can be a convenient excuse to start the fighting. Or the arguing.
 
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