Israel / Palestine

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Psamathe

Über Member
The problem Trump has now in renegotiating deals (trade deals nuclear nonproliferation deals, whatever) is no one thinks any deal he makes is worth the paper it is written on (and signed with a Sharpie).

He's a great deal breaker, not a great deal maker, because he breaks every deal in order to demand a better one.
Maybe worse as sort of applies to any deal with the US, not just deals Trump makes. He's set the precedent that deals made by others he feels threatened by will be broken just because he doesn't like the President at the time. Breaking deals made by Obama and Biden just on the grounds he doesn't like Obama nor Biden not because there is anything wrong with the deal.

And whilst Tump's term is limited he has set the precedent and subsequent Governments will consider it acceptable, even standard practice. So any deal made with any US Government might easily be very short term and temporary ... so why waste time and effort negotiating something complex when it stands a limited chance of outlasting next US elections.

Ian
 
Their reply so far seems to be ‘don’t hit me, it wasn’t me it was my friend’. Seriously, why does the US condemn everyone else but let Israel do whatever it wants using US made weapons?
Isreal is one of the few costumers for Us weapons and suppliers they supply enough advanced tech to the US so that makes the ''big brother'' attitude not really fitting. The only way Trump can respond now is how he according to a daily fail headline already has something like ''Iran better agree with an deal now or else'' but in reality this is just Nathanyahu showing he can call the shots.
I don't see how Israel can ever hope to live in peace until it learns to talk to neighbours in the region, to "get along" with others. If all they can do to neighbouring countries is send in troops, annex land, bomb, etc. they'll never get peace just perpetual war with anybody and everybody, continually in a state of alert waiting for retaliation.
It was quite peacefull, before the 7 October attacks, it's just that now they escalated(Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran) it they don't have control on when Isreal feels it's done taking revenge. And it seems they once again are very well prepared, and made Iran look like fools as not that long ago after a other general was killed in his ''safehouse'' the have gotten rid of all Isreali infiltrators, well they clearly haven't. (yes is present form i don't believe Israel doesn't still have moles/eyes there )
From what I've seen of the latest attack on Iran, I wouldn't be surprised if part of Iran's reaction is to fully accelerate getting nuclear weapons, no waiting for negotiations (and further attacks) but do everything they can as fast as they can.

Ian
The accusation was they didn't stop it anyway just claimed they did.
The ignore function on here is great. The only reason I even know he’s posted is when someone quotes him. Other than that the only clue I have of his existence is that he has joined Shortfall as a Stevo likebot
Doesn't that kind of beat the purpose of a discussion forum?

If it stays that way it could be one of the better things Trump has done (or not done I guess). It may not be great for the Israeli population but they need to get rid of those in power who are intent on conflict or face the consequences.
Well Isreali are experiencing an ''brain drain'' for some time so partly they are already voting but moving out.

Iran was reducing its nuclear capability under the previous Iran Nuclear Deal, negotiated by John Kelly and supported by the EU, UK and Japan, and was working beautifully, under the guidance of the IAEA, until Trump waded in and wrecked it in 2018.

Now he wants a new one.

:wacko:
It was working beautifully because Iran only showed them what they wanted, when they where asked about other ''acitivities'' they refused entry. So on paper yes they did, but if they actually did and not just moved it out of sight remains to be seen.
 

Pross

Regular
Doesn't that kind of beat the purpose of a discussion forum?

No, I only use it for those whose sole purpose in posting is to try to wind people up. There are plenty of people on here I disagree with but they are prepared to debate and back up their point. If someone is spamming the site with dodgy X feeds and offers nothing other than argument then they are best ignored. It's currently a very short list for me as most people are open to intelligent discussion. I can guarantee that if this forum was a majority of Trump / Reform supporting right-wingers the same people who are currently arguing from that side of any debate would be taking the leftie argument.
 

C R

Guru
I can guarantee that if this forum was a majority of Trump / Reform supporting right-wingers the same people who are currently arguing from that side of any debate would be taking the leftie argument.

I think you give it too much credit.
 

First Aspect

Well-Known Member
The problem Trump has now in renegotiating deals (trade deals nuclear nonproliferation deals, whatever) is no one thinks any deal he makes is worth the paper it is written on (and signed with a Sharpie).

He's a great deal breaker, not a great deal maker, because he breaks every deal in order to demand a better one.

Aaand he's demanding a "deal" with Iran. Because that's how religious fundamentalism works and no one realised before.
 

Pblakeney

Well-Known Member
Aaand he's demanding a "deal" with Iran. Because that's how religious fundamentalism works and no one realised before.

That "deal" will probably end up like the "deal" with Putin.
Has he said Iran doesn't have the cards yet? Probably not as "cards" is what Iran are after and they've learned from the Ukraine "deals".
 
That "deal" will probably end up like the "deal" with Putin.
Has he said Iran doesn't have the cards yet? Probably not as "cards" is what Iran are after and they've learned from the Ukraine "deals".
If it depends on Trump yes but giving the pounding Isreal has given them and is still giving them, they probably be happy to sign any deal if that gives them some time to recoup.
not that it will help them much, as long as Israel/the Mossad can hide in plain sight any recoup is fruitless.
 
It was working beautifully because Iran only showed them what they wanted, when they where asked about other ''acitivities'' they refused entry. So on paper yes they did, but if they actually did and not just moved it out of sight remains to be seen.

Unsurprisingly that's complete bollox!

The IAEA, as well as monitors from other countries, were on the ground for several years. It's kind of hard to move and hide nuclear material especially as there are these things called satellites that can pick this stuff up. That's part of the technology used to find and deal with Iran's then nuclear stockpile.
 
Unsurprisingly that's complete bollox!

The IAEA, as well as monitors from other countries, were on the ground for several years. It's kind of hard to move and hide nuclear material especially as there are these things called satellites that can pick this stuff up. That's part of the technology used to find and deal with Iran's then nuclear stockpile.
Let me guess you have an article from the China morning post that claims this is totally accurate right? or you ready to claim doubting Iran's claims is ''islamohpobia''? The IAEA was indeed on the ground and they reported they in fact did not get full acces, so like you say they knew there where other places where they might be making something and they did not get access Iran only wanted to show them what Iran had decided they wanted to show. And that's a problem. There are many things wrong with the Trump administration then and now, but in this case insisting or better worded backing the IAEA in their demand for full access and withdrawing from the deal when full clarity was not given, under Obama it's just stayed with ''we are very dissappointed'' doesn't work with totaliarian regimes.
 
Let me guess you have an article from the China morning post that claims this is totally accurate right? or you ready to claim doubting Iran's claims is ''islamohpobia''? The IAEA was indeed on the ground and they reported they in fact did not get full acces, so like you say they knew there where other places where they might be making something and they did not get access Iran only wanted to show them what Iran had decided they wanted to show. And that's a problem. There are many things wrong with the Trump administration then and now, but in this case insisting or better worded backing the IAEA in their demand for full access and withdrawing from the deal when full clarity was not given, under Obama it's just stayed with ''we are very dissappointed'' doesn't work with totaliarian regimes.

Erm...no.

My sources are from many news reports that detailed the work of the IAEA and the first nuclear deal.

As always, you're talking bollox again.

And, fyi, I'm no fan of the Iranian regime and neither are the Iranian people.
 
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briantrumpet

Über Member
No, I only use it for those whose sole purpose in posting is to try to wind people up. There are plenty of people on here I disagree with but they are prepared to debate and back up their point. If someone is spamming the site with dodgy X feeds and offers nothing other than argument then they are best ignored. It's currently a very short list for me as most people are open to intelligent discussion. I can guarantee that if this forum was a majority of Trump / Reform supporting right-wingers the same people who are currently arguing from that side of any debate would be taking the leftie argument.

A tell-tale of arguing in bad faith is the easy resort to ad hominems or name-calling.

This is a decent guide to identify trolls https://www.wikihow.com/Identify-a-Troll - if you read through that and someone here ticks several boxes (hint - they do), then, as you say, the 'ignore' function works well.
 
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