Israel / Palestine

[Psamathe]

Strikes me that in Gaza population density is so high you can't swing a cat and not hit several population centres so how does Israel expect Hamas to locate their resources without this "Human Shield". Yet in Israel they site HaKirya in the middle of Tel Aviv. So Israel is fine siting a significant military target in the middle of their biggest "Human Shield" yet others who have no choice are causing civilian deaths (when it's Israel's legal obligation to avoid such deaths).

Ian

 

[CXRAndy]

I.e. played Trump and Starmer like a fiddle. The worst of it is that the British government know they are being played but are happy to go along.

What to do, when your lefty loving government no longer aligns with your woke, beta level terrorist supporting sympathies

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/orenbarsky/status/1933832385671344147?t=_nnVy1_QC764HTY79YWoAw&s=19

 

[Pblakeney]

And given how Netanyahu & Putin are playing Trump like a fiddle we are indirectly being played by them as well.

Ian

I asked the question before (can’t remember if here or BR), now that we have Brexit sovereignty will we go it alone or be the US’s bitch?
Bitch it is.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Strikes me that in Gaza population density is so high you can't swing a cat and not hit several population centres so how does Israel expect Hamas to locate their resources without this "Human Shield". Yet in Israel they site HaKirya in the middle of Tel Aviv. So Israel is fine siting a significant military target in the middle of their biggest "Human Shield" yet others who have no choice are causing civilian deaths (when it's Israel's legal obligation to avoid such deaths).

Ian

There is tons of evidence, not in the least by Hamas leadership in Qatar (safe from all the bombs etc.) clearly declaring that they see all of Gaza population als matyrs and the location of their launch location etc. close to schools, their use of human shields etc. is not born out of desperation or having no other way, that's is where apology western idiots chose to run with It's because they(hamas) see the gaza population as replaceable, less than human. So in a way is Isreals' goal to remove Hamas from power the best humanitarian aid they can give.
Isreal calls before their are about to bomb a building, Hamas's response was to place more people on said building at gunpoint, yet you manage to protray Isreal as the ''baddie'' quite an archievement. or is it just ignorance?

 

[cookiemonster]

There is tons of evidence, not in the least by Hamas leadership in Qatar (safe from all the bombs etc.) clearly declaring that they see all of Gaza population als matyrs and the location of their launch location etc. close to schools, their use of human shields etc. is not born out of desperation or having no other way, that's is where apology western idiots chose to run with It's because they(hamas) see the gaza population as replaceable, less than human. So in a way is Isreals' goal to remove Hamas from power the best humanitarian aid they can give.
Isreal calls before their are about to bomb a building, Hamas's response was to place more people on said building at gunpoint, yet you manage to protray Isreal as the ''baddie'' quite an archievement. or is it just ignorance?

Any nation that kills 63000+ civilians, bombs schools, hospitals, refugee camps, kills 15 paramedics and dumps their bodies in a ditch and is using queues of starving, unarmed civilians, as target practice for their snipers (8 killed yesterday, 60 over the weekend) are not exactly all sweetness and light.

It's all there in the Geneva Convention and the Rome Statute.

But, never mind, after all, they're the wrong colour and religion so, in your eyes, f*ck them.

 

[cookiemonster]

There is tons of evidence, not in the least by Hamas leadership in Qatar (safe from all the bombs etc.) clearly declaring that they see all of Gaza population als matyrs and the location of their launch location etc. close to schools, their use of human shields etc. is not born out of desperation or having no other way, that's is where apology western idiots chose to run with It's because they(hamas) see the gaza population as replaceable, less than human. So in a way is Isreals' goal to remove Hamas from power the best humanitarian aid they can give.
Isreal calls before their are about to bomb a building, Hamas's response was to place more people on said building at gunpoint, yet you manage to protray Isreal as the ''baddie'' quite an archievement. or is it just ignorance?

Care to share?

 

[AndyRM]

Care to share?

Come on now, you should know better. He's either linked to it before and we should read through his lengthy rambles to unearth it, or it's too graphic for our delicate sensibilities so he couldn't possibly...

It's weird though, because if any of the evidence he claims exists ever got posted I'd be interested in having a look. But it never materialises, or is about something completely irrelevant.

Funny that.

 

[cookiemonster]

No arguing with this assessment. From 'I See You' Facebook page.

I see you, David Lammy.

“A moment of grave peril.” I guess that’s one way of putting it when your supposed allies take it upon themselves to once again put a flamethrower to the tinderbox of a wider regional conflict. ‘Supposed’ being the key word here; Netanyahu’s government now views the UK as an ‘unreliable partner,’ which is why you apparently weren’t informed of these strikes on Iran before they took place.

It’s always nice to get a thank you like that, isn’t it? It’s a real Hallmark moment. Cheers for spending the last two years pissing away all of your credibility with your tacit support of our grinding slaughter of countless civilians and children, but you’ve been a tad snarky with us recently. That just won’t do.
Sanctioning our settlers, wagging your finger in the House, trying to impose international law on us like the big judgmental meanie you are. What do you mean we can’t pursue a deliberate policy of forced starvation? No fair! We’re taking your bombs and going to Tehran!

This is what we get for treating diplomacy like a flat-share agreement with a serial killer, ignoring the chum and gristle clogging the shower drain because he usually keeps himself to himself and at least pays the rent on time. Our shameful indifference to the grinding, decades-long subjugation of the Palestinians has been warped by Netanyahu’s ultranationalist coalition into a presumption of total immunity.

It's clear you’re perfectly capable of putting some of those fiery oratory skills of yours to their proper use. Your recent condemnation of the deliberate famine in Gaza showed us that. But there’s no sign of it here, even as Israel unilaterally turns its ire on yet another neighbouring state. You’re still pretending this is just a difference of approach, mumbling about our own concerns with Iran’s nuclear programme, when it’s actually a fundamental betrayal of everything we once claimed to believe in.

Where was the scathing condemnation? Where was the recognition of the actual aggressor in this needless escalation, or the call for them to rein in this madness before it detonates something bigger? Israel didn’t just strike back at Iran’s proxies — it once again hit inside Iran itself. It struck their nuclear facilities and aimed to decapitate their leadership, like a methed-up George Bush with even less foresight for the mess they might create.

You were just handed a golden opportunity to finally demonstrate that old spine of yours. To show the world that the UK won't just let one of its allies drag us headfirst into a regional war just to shore up their own coalition of far-right lunatics and indicted warmongers. Instead, we got a low-energy TV interview and the same tired calls for “restraint,” as if Netanyahu hasn’t completely lost his mind or has any interest in diplomacy of any kind.

Iran is no gentle, misunderstood giant. Its regime fantasises about a world without Israel, is explicitly genocidal in their stated methods for achieving it, and funds the machinery of Hezbollah and the Houthis to get one step closer to it. In ways that aren’t half mirrored by some of the ghouls on Israel’s war council, Iran's leadership are a death cult of religious fanatics hiding behind the legitimacy of a UN seat. But all of that being said, international law is not a farking vibes-based assessment of who the country with the most bombs dislikes more this week.

This wasn’t a defensive response. It was a deliberate, destabilising escalation without the legal cover of any kind of imminent threat — the kind of strike we’d label as an outrageous violation of international law if anyone else had done it. You don’t get to flout sovereign borders and endanger a region of 700 million people just because you’re dealing with a prick. That’s not how rules work; it’s how reckless dickheads spark sprawling pub brawls.
Not that the rules apply any more. They stopped mattering the moment Donald Trump torched the nuclear non-proliferation framework with Iran, in one of his pettiest fits of performative anti-Obama spite. He wrenched the Iran deal out of the Ayatollah’s hands like an abusive parent sick of their toddler’s rattle, and then wondered why the screaming didn’t stop. It was imperfect, yes, but verifiably keeping Iran’s nuclear ambitions in check. Trump shredded it and slapped on maximum-pressure sanctions that pushed Iran right back towards enrichment.

Trump killed the deal for a cheap applause break from a crowd drunk on slogans and allergic to nuance. He left Biden holding a handful of ashes and a promise that couldn’t be remade in time. And now here we are: an Iranian regime creeping towards enrichment, an Israeli government with a martyr complex that has unilaterally decided to act against them, and a British foreign secretary so hamstrung by his party’s blind loyalty to Israel that he can’t even accurately condemn the aggressor. You’re not being grown-up, David. You’re yet again being complicit by omission.

You say that we’re back on the world stage — that Global Britain is rebuilding its moral authority. But the world doesn’t see a principled mediator. It sees a washed-out sidekick blinking gormlessly in the white phosphorous flash of a foreign power’s war crimes. You don’t sound like a diplomat. You sound like a bystander rehearsing their statement for yet another inquiry that comes five years too late.

There should have been sanctions. Clear condemnations and red lines we actually enforced. If this were any other country unilaterally bombing nuclear facilities on foreign soil, you’d be in front of the Commons with a folder full of UN charters and a voice hoarse from righteous barking. But yet again, Israel somehow gets a pass.

What is the f*cking point of even pretending we abide by a rules-based order, if the rules only ever bind our enemies? We don’t need more vacuous statements or calls for calm. We need consequences.

I see you, David Lammy. I f*cking see you.

 

[Pblakeney]

No arguing with this assessment. From 'I See You' Facebook page.

I see you, David Lammy.

“A moment of grave peril.” I guess that’s one way of putting it when your supposed allies take it upon themselves to once again put a flamethrower to the tinderbox of a wider regional conflict. ‘Supposed’ being the key word here; Netanyahu’s government now views the UK as an ‘unreliable partner,’ which is why you apparently weren’t informed of these strikes on Iran before they took place.

It’s always nice to get a thank you like that, isn’t it? It’s a real Hallmark moment. Cheers for spending the last two years pissing away all of your credibility with your tacit support of our grinding slaughter of countless civilians and children, but you’ve been a tad snarky with us recently. That just won’t do.
Sanctioning our settlers, wagging your finger in the House, trying to impose international law on us like the big judgmental meanie you are. What do you mean we can’t pursue a deliberate policy of forced starvation? No fair! We’re taking your bombs and going to Tehran!

This is what we get for treating diplomacy like a flat-share agreement with a serial killer, ignoring the chum and gristle clogging the shower drain because he usually keeps himself to himself and at least pays the rent on time. Our shameful indifference to the grinding, decades-long subjugation of the Palestinians has been warped by Netanyahu’s ultranationalist coalition into a presumption of total immunity.

It's clear you’re perfectly capable of putting some of those fiery oratory skills of yours to their proper use. Your recent condemnation of the deliberate famine in Gaza showed us that. But there’s no sign of it here, even as Israel unilaterally turns its ire on yet another neighbouring state. You’re still pretending this is just a difference of approach, mumbling about our own concerns with Iran’s nuclear programme, when it’s actually a fundamental betrayal of everything we once claimed to believe in.

Where was the scathing condemnation? Where was the recognition of the actual aggressor in this needless escalation, or the call for them to rein in this madness before it detonates something bigger? Israel didn’t just strike back at Iran’s proxies — it once again hit inside Iran itself. It struck their nuclear facilities and aimed to decapitate their leadership, like a methed-up George Bush with even less foresight for the mess they might create.

You were just handed a golden opportunity to finally demonstrate that old spine of yours. To show the world that the UK won't just let one of its allies drag us headfirst into a regional war just to shore up their own coalition of far-right lunatics and indicted warmongers. Instead, we got a low-energy TV interview and the same tired calls for “restraint,” as if Netanyahu hasn’t completely lost his mind or has any interest in diplomacy of any kind.

Iran is no gentle, misunderstood giant. Its regime fantasises about a world without Israel, is explicitly genocidal in their stated methods for achieving it, and funds the machinery of Hezbollah and the Houthis to get one step closer to it. In ways that aren’t half mirrored by some of the ghouls on Israel’s war council, Iran's leadership are a death cult of religious fanatics hiding behind the legitimacy of a UN seat. But all of that being said, international law is not a farking vibes-based assessment of who the country with the most bombs dislikes more this week.

This wasn’t a defensive response. It was a deliberate, destabilising escalation without the legal cover of any kind of imminent threat — the kind of strike we’d label as an outrageous violation of international law if anyone else had done it. You don’t get to flout sovereign borders and endanger a region of 700 million people just because you’re dealing with a prick. That’s not how rules work; it’s how reckless dickheads spark sprawling pub brawls.
Not that the rules apply any more. They stopped mattering the moment Donald Trump torched the nuclear non-proliferation framework with Iran, in one of his pettiest fits of performative anti-Obama spite. He wrenched the Iran deal out of the Ayatollah’s hands like an abusive parent sick of their toddler’s rattle, and then wondered why the screaming didn’t stop. It was imperfect, yes, but verifiably keeping Iran’s nuclear ambitions in check. Trump shredded it and slapped on maximum-pressure sanctions that pushed Iran right back towards enrichment.

Trump killed the deal for a cheap applause break from a crowd drunk on slogans and allergic to nuance. He left Biden holding a handful of ashes and a promise that couldn’t be remade in time. And now here we are: an Iranian regime creeping towards enrichment, an Israeli government with a martyr complex that has unilaterally decided to act against them, and a British foreign secretary so hamstrung by his party’s blind loyalty to Israel that he can’t even accurately condemn the aggressor. You’re not being grown-up, David. You’re yet again being complicit by omission.

You say that we’re back on the world stage — that Global Britain is rebuilding its moral authority. But the world doesn’t see a principled mediator. It sees a washed-out sidekick blinking gormlessly in the white phosphorous flash of a foreign power’s war crimes. You don’t sound like a diplomat. You sound like a bystander rehearsing their statement for yet another inquiry that comes five years too late.

There should have been sanctions. Clear condemnations and red lines we actually enforced. If this were any other country unilaterally bombing nuclear facilities on foreign soil, you’d be in front of the Commons with a folder full of UN charters and a voice hoarse from righteous barking. But yet again, Israel somehow gets a pass.

What is the f*cking point of even pretending we abide by a rules-based order, if the rules only ever bind our enemies? We don’t need more vacuous statements or calls for calm. We need consequences.

I see you, David Lammy. I f*cking see you.

Much better written than my post further up page.
I think my post is more succinct though.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

No, I only use it for those whose sole purpose in posting is to try to wind people up. There are plenty of people on here I disagree with but they are prepared to debate and back up their point. If someone is spamming the site with dodgy X feeds and offers nothing other than argument then they are best ignored. It's currently a very short list for me as most people are open to intelligent discussion.

The problem with trying to elevate yourself from others is that's there always an higher tree, people can learn, adapt and change, but if they then are blocked by everyone, what will they do? probably find a other place.

I can guarantee that if this forum was a majority of Trump / Reform supporting right-wingers the same people who are currently arguing from that side of any debate would be taking the leftie argument.

yes different words same idea agreed.

Erm...no.

My sources are from many news reports that detailed the work of the IAEA and the first nuclear deal.

How come your sources say something that isn't true? Iran at no point has met all demands it was just Trump who pulled to plug at some point. How much i agree Trump makes a lot of stupid decisions in this case it was needed because Iran was playing games, it was very clear they never had any intention to comply.

As always, you're talking bollox again.

And, fyi, I'm no fan of the Iranian regime and neither are the Iranian people.

I didn't pull the China morning post off thin air, you used it as a source before, but to have a page out of you own book, care to share any evidence? oh wait i forgot not even 10 post down you're forced to backtrack from your claims because aurorasaab showed you the once actually full of bolox is once again you.
That you then counter with an the **but if Trump didn't do this blah** doesn't change the fact that you made an claim in very strong words that isn't true, you're wrong.

Any nation that kills 63000+ civilians, bombs schools, hospitals, refugee camps,

On a populations of a estimated 2 million with that number of 63000 also including un undisclosed amount of Hamas fighters(because the cowards only wear uniforms when they deliver the wrong death baby back) I think often tabled terms like genocide are overrated, all know genocides whether it was Hitler or Staling during the second world war, Turkey's genocide on the armeniens all have in common that the death count was much higher because they simply sought to kill everyone of a certain group.
And schools and hospitals would be terrible werent it not for the fact that everytime them seems to find clear indications or evidence that those hospitals and schools are used by Hamas. they stored their ammo in their or even launches rockets from it.

I also stand by y point that it speaks for itself that people who litterly lost everything chant ''it's Hamas not the Jews''

kills 15 paramedics and dumps their bodies in a ditch

that is indeed wrong do you have a source for that story?

and is using queues of starving, unarmed civilians, as target practice for their snipers (8 killed yesterday, 60 over the weekend) are not exactly all sweetness and light.

How about Hamas shooting at people who are trying to reach those aid point and or the amount of food they have stocked up in their warehouses? Do you have any source for that vague sniper claim?

It's all there in the Geneva Convention and the Rome Statute.

the problem with the Geneva convention is that it's both Hamas and Isreal would be breaching it many times, but only Isreal can be held to account for it.

But, never mind, after all, they're the wrong colour and religion so, in your eyes, f*ck them.

If it's all about race, why are the surrounding countries not helping? There are also muslims and the same skin color. Tip look for example at the role of palestian refugees in the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq at the time....

Come on now, you should know better. He's either linked to it before and we should read through his lengthy rambles to unearth it, or it's too graphic for our delicate sensibilities so he couldn't possibly...

Comes the one again who stakes something and then come back from his promise by changing yes changing the conditions afterwards. and for the record everytime i have said i won't post graphical images i also told you where you can see that, if that's you thing.

It's weird though, because if any of the evidence he claims exists ever got posted I'd be interested in having a look. But it never materialises, or is about something completely irrelevant.

Funny that.

Yeah? go ahead and prove that that what i posted in my last post with videos about Gaza i posted about the other day is lying, fabricated or, making things up etc. go ahead put you money where you mouth is, or show again that you stake a lot but deliver nothing.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Care to share?

Sure this is
View: https://x.com/IhabHassane/status/1924170779576386036
the most recent one.(by my knowledge he seems to have all the time in the world to celebrate Palestinians being killed.)

 

[cookiemonster]

1)How come your sources say something that isn't true? Iran at no point has met all demands it was just Trump who pulled to plug at some point. How much i agree Trump makes a lot of stupid decisions in this case it was needed because Iran was playing games, it was very clear they never had any intention to comply.


2) I didn't pull the China morning post off thin air, you used it as a source before, but to have a page out of you own book, care to share any evidence? oh wait i forgot not even 10 post down you're forced to backtrack from your claims because aurorasaab showed you the once actually full of bolox is once again you.
That you then counter with an the **but if Trump didn't do this blah** doesn't change the fact that you made an claim in very strong words that isn't true, you're wrong.


3)On a populations of a estimated 2 million with that number of 63000 also including un undisclosed amount of Hamas fighters(because the cowards only wear uniforms when they deliver the wrong death baby back) I think often tabled terms like genocide are overrated, all know genocides whether it was Hitler or Staling during the second world war, Turkey's genocide on the armeniens all have in common that the death count was much higher because they simply sought to kill everyone of a certain group.
And schools and hospitals would be terrible werent it not for the fact that everytime them seems to find clear indications or evidence that those hospitals and schools are used by Hamas. they stored their ammo in their or even launches rockets from it.

I also stand by y point that it speaks for itself that people who litterly lost everything chant ''it's Hamas not the Jews''

that is indeed wrong do you have a source for that story?


4) How about Hamas shooting at people who are trying to reach those aid point and or the amount of food they have stocked up in their warehouses? Do you have any source for that vague sniper claim?


5) the problem with the Geneva convention is that it's both Hamas and Isreal would be breaching it many times, but only Isreal can be held to account for it.


If it's all about race, why are the surrounding countries not helping? There are also muslims and the same skin color. Tip look for example at the role of palestian refugees in the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq at the time....

Comes the one again who stakes something and then come back from his promise by changing yes changing the conditions afterwards. and for the record everytime i have said i won't post graphical images i also told you where you can see that, if that's you thing.

Yeah? go ahead and prove that that what i posted in my last post with videos about Gaza i posted about the other day is lying, fabricated or, making things up etc. go ahead put you money where you mouth is, or show again that you stake a lot but deliver nothing.

What a pile of utter bollox.

1) The previous nuclear deal was imperfect but it was working and was keeping Iran's nuclear ambitions well and truly in check. Trump wrecked it in 2018 because it was from Obama's time and he is still mad that Obama roasted him. My sources ar ethe same sources that are available to everyone, including you. It has been well reported.

*edit* Just seen the newest The News Agents YT programme and Emily Maitlis, a highly esteemed journalist who knows her stuff, confirmed what I posted above. A correction, it was 2017 not 2018 that Trump tore up the first deal.

2) I actually agreed with Aurorasaab's post. It took what I posted previously and expanded on it. If you were capable of critical thinking, which racists like you don't have the ability to do, you would've known that.

3) Complete BS! No evidence at all for that assertion. The IDF killed another 37 yesterday while waiting for food.

4) See point 3.

5) Israel has NEVER been held to account for any of its actions. It seems to have a free pass to do things that any other nation would be hammered for.

 

[Pblakeney]

Things are likely to escalate today/tonight.
Regardless of the G7's meaningless statement.

 

[Psamathe]

Things are likely to escalate today/tonight.
Regardless of the G7's meaningless statement.

I don't think these G7 "World Leaders" understand "deescalation". Trump going on how Iran should make a deal ... that's exactly what they were doing until Israel got worried there might be a deal so acted to in effect scupper any such prospects.

Ian