Israel / Palestine

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PurplePenguin

PurplePenguin

Active Member
I think the only reason Netanyahu accepted the plan is that he knows Hamas won't be able to accept it and this will make Israel look better. On that basis, I expect Hamas will accept an amended plan which will be very different to the Trump plan.

I'm not sure why everyone else is talking up the plan.
 
Ian H

Ian H

Squire
PurplePenguin said:
I think the only reason Netanyahu accepted the plan is that he knows Hamas won't be able to accept it and this will make Israel look better. On that basis, I expect Hamas will accept an amended plan which will be very different to the Trump plan.

I'm not sure why everyone else is talking up the plan.
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Because no one wants to be seen as a doomsayer.
 
Psamathe

Psamathe

Veteran
PurplePenguin said:
I think the only reason Netanyahu accepted the plan is that he knows Hamas won't be able to accept it and this will make Israel look better. On that basis, I expect Hamas will accept an amended plan which will be very different to the Trump plan.

I'm not sure why everyone else is talking up the plan.
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I would agree. Without considering "right and wrong" from either side, it does seem a document created by Israel with the US (reported that Netanyahu spent day before Trump meeting going through document re-writing sections and that various Arab states' input to the process was completely ignored).

Probably all sorts of nuances I'm unaware of but it does strike me as Hamas give-up what they regard as their only "leverage" at the very start and then trust Israel to honour Israeli undertakings - and given Israel's track record I can see that being hard for anybody to accept.
 
dutchguylivingintheuk

dutchguylivingintheuk

Veteran
Pblakeney said:
The one detail Donald did was a 72 hour deadline. Can't see negotiations happening in that time scale.
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Hamas has 72hrs to take the deal, don't think they have room for negotiations. (at least that's what i gather from it.)
C R said:
If we are going to talk bollocks, Israel would kill every non israeli anywhere, because they are jehova's chosen people and everyone else are interlopers.
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Isreal never made an ''founding principles'' document stating they want to kill all non-jews. In contrary to Hamas about Jews. (yes Jews not Isreali's) that they meanwhile have changed the wording doesn't say a lot.
So your comparison is wrong.
 
Psamathe

Psamathe

Veteran
Again, without considering rights and wrongs from both sides and desperately hoping peace can be found, just strategically if Hamas want to reject it they'd be more sensible to say they accept it "in principle" subject to the details which need to be included/negotiated. That way they have pushed it into further negotiation that will either make it acceptable or highlight Israel/Netanyahu being the hindrance.
 
Ian H

Ian H

Squire
dutchguylivingintheuk said:
Hamas has 72hrs to take the deal, don't think they have room for negotiations. (at least that's what i gather from it.)

Isreal never made an ''founding principles'' document stating they want to kill all non-jews. In contrary to Hamas about Jews. (yes Jews not Isreali's) that they meanwhile have changed the wording doesn't say a lot.
So your comparison is wrong.
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Rather like Israelis who say they want to kill all Arabs. They only mean the Palestinian ones.
 
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Ian H

Ian H

Squire
Another thoughtful post from Michael Rosen
https://www.facebook.com/michael.rosen.5496
Things are getting complicated. The British Board of Deputies have said that it's wrong for the Israeli Minister for the Diaspora to have invited Tommy Robinson to Israel. Tommy Robinson says that the British Board of Deputies are elitist, woke, weak liberal Jews in favour of mass immigration and talking to Islamists and, he says, don't speak for British Jews, who are against mass immigration and in favour of right wing Israelis like Netanyahu.
On several occasions in the last few years, some people had suggested that relations between some people who were 'non-apologetic supporters of Israel' (their phrase, not mine) had on occasions got a little bit adjacent to Tommy Robinson. This suggestion was met with contempt, horror and a threat or two of legal proceedings. As if any such connection could possibly be made!
Well, it seems as if the Minister of Diaspora Affairs has put some flesh on the relationship and Tommy Robinson has responded by showing just how much contempt he has for the body that represents a sizeable (probably the majority) of British Jews. However, as Tommy Robinson has declared himself an enthusiastic supporter of Israel, we can in turn declare him totally clean of antisemitism. We can say this on account of the rule of opposites. This is how it works: we are living in the midst of the rise and rise of the theory that if you attack Israel and support the Palestinians and/or declare yourself to be anti-Zionist, then you must be antisemitic. In which case, the converse must surely be true: if you're enthusiastically pro-Israel, you can't be antisemitic. In Tommy Robinson's case, this means that you can call the body that represents many (most?) Jews, a bunch of elitist, weak, woke liberals who have enabled the white race to be replaced by brown and black people.
Joseph Goebbels has not responded to a request for comment.
 
Psamathe

Psamathe

Veteran
September another almost record month for UK arms exports to Israel. 2nd highest value ever (highest being June 2025)

Screenshot 2025-10-07 at 10.33.54.png

(from https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...ved-by-israel-reach-record-high-value-in-2025)

So much for UK stopping arming Israel's war machine.
 
BoldonLad

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
Ian H

Ian H

Squire
Annually, there were 3,282 religious hate crimes targeted at Jewish people in the year ending March 2024, more than double the number recorded the previous year (1,543). These offences accounted for a third (33%) of all religious hate crimes in the last year. By comparison, the proportion in the previous year was 20%.

There was also an increase in religious hate crimes targeted against Muslims since the beginning of the Israel-Hamas conflict, with 3,866 offences in the latest year, up 13% from 3,432 recorded the previous year. In the last year, almost 2 in 5 (38%) of religious hate crimes were targeted against Muslims.
https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...rime-england-and-wales-year-ending-march-2024
 
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Pblakeney

Pblakeney

Über Member
Ian H said:
Annually, there were 3,282 religious hate crimes targeted at Jewish people in the year ending March 2024, more than double the number recorded the previous year (1,543). These offences accounted for a third (33%) of all religious hate crimes in the last year. By comparison, the proportion in the previous year was 20%.

There was also an increase in religious hate crimes targeted against Muslims since the beginning of the Israel-Hamas conflict, with 3,866 offences in the latest year, up 13% from 3,432 recorded the previous year. In the last year, almost 2 in 5 (38%) of religious hate crimes were targeted against Muslims.
https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...rime-england-and-wales-year-ending-march-2024
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I guess all religious hate crimes have to be aimed at one religion or another.
Imagine a world without religion.
 
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